Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The D&D Edition Complexity Thread- How do you order Edition Complexity?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ccooke" data-source="post: 7906935" data-attributes="member: 6695890"><p>You run into some thorny problems with how you define complexity, too.</p><p></p><p>I ran two 4e games for most of its lifespan. I found it easy to run - vastly much more so than 3e! However, as [USER=4348]@GreyLord[/USER] said, player complexity was much higher. For my two groups in particular, very few of the players were strongly invested in the mechanics of 4e, which meant that I ended up having to spend several hours helping them every time they levelled up, providing advice and resources. That made levelling up such a slog that I used to dread it.</p><p></p><p>But the thing is, I believe that a group that was invested would likely not even recognise the problem I faced; it seems to me that a lot of 4e's complexity was in the choices and a limited set of interactions. It's a complexity that's easy to learn.</p><p></p><p>Basically, I'm saying that complexity means different things to different people in different situations. Sometimes complexity can be hidden by good design (the board game Scythe is an excellent example here; it can easily take 30-40 minutes just to understand the rules... but it's common for players to get to the point within a single game where the average turn is about 5-10 seconds), or sometimes poor design can make something seem much more complex (yes, OD&D. I'm talking about you).</p><p></p><p>I personally define complexity as anything that acts as a barrier to understanding the rules. By this terrible and arbitrary measure, I'm going to order the editions like this:</p><p></p><p>Starting from least complexity, and limiting to things I've actually played:</p><p></p><p>5e. It's easy to understand, the basic rules are free online (so easy to obtain), and the SRD contains full chargen instructions</p><p></p><p>3e. A relatively unified system. SRD is available and has a lot of information on how to play, if not actual mechanics of chargen (although Pathfinder did include some...)</p><p></p><p>4e. Simpler as a system than 3e and (perhaps) 5e, but with more barriers to entry. You had to pay something or know someone who had.</p><p></p><p>2e. I always found it a bit easier to understand than 1e, although I never had the chance to play 1e, so maybe that's just bias.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ccooke, post: 7906935, member: 6695890"] You run into some thorny problems with how you define complexity, too. I ran two 4e games for most of its lifespan. I found it easy to run - vastly much more so than 3e! However, as [USER=4348]@GreyLord[/USER] said, player complexity was much higher. For my two groups in particular, very few of the players were strongly invested in the mechanics of 4e, which meant that I ended up having to spend several hours helping them every time they levelled up, providing advice and resources. That made levelling up such a slog that I used to dread it. But the thing is, I believe that a group that was invested would likely not even recognise the problem I faced; it seems to me that a lot of 4e's complexity was in the choices and a limited set of interactions. It's a complexity that's easy to learn. Basically, I'm saying that complexity means different things to different people in different situations. Sometimes complexity can be hidden by good design (the board game Scythe is an excellent example here; it can easily take 30-40 minutes just to understand the rules... but it's common for players to get to the point within a single game where the average turn is about 5-10 seconds), or sometimes poor design can make something seem much more complex (yes, OD&D. I'm talking about you). I personally define complexity as anything that acts as a barrier to understanding the rules. By this terrible and arbitrary measure, I'm going to order the editions like this: Starting from least complexity, and limiting to things I've actually played: 5e. It's easy to understand, the basic rules are free online (so easy to obtain), and the SRD contains full chargen instructions 3e. A relatively unified system. SRD is available and has a lot of information on how to play, if not actual mechanics of chargen (although Pathfinder did include some...) 4e. Simpler as a system than 3e and (perhaps) 5e, but with more barriers to entry. You had to pay something or know someone who had. 2e. I always found it a bit easier to understand than 1e, although I never had the chance to play 1e, so maybe that's just bias. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The D&D Edition Complexity Thread- How do you order Edition Complexity?
Top