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The D&D Edition Complexity Thread- How do you order Edition Complexity?
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<blockquote data-quote="JiffyPopTart" data-source="post: 7906983" data-attributes="member: 4881"><p>Least Complex <---5e--4e--Basic/Moldvay--3.x--2e--1e---> Most Complex </p><p></p><p>A couple notes to add to the above line from me.</p><p></p><p>In my mind "Basic", "Moldvay", "Holmes", "BECMI", and "Rules Cyclopedia" are all the same game system with minor tweaks and or content split up over different numbers of books. Much like in my mind 3.0 and 3.5 are the same game system. I do not separate them in my head. I didn't even know until today that there is a system people like "B/X" which they consider different enough from "Rules Cyclopedia" to be able to champion one over the other.</p><p></p><p>If I were to rate JUST the Basic and Expert Erol Otis Dragon Cover rulebooks I would say they are certainly the least complex version of DnD. I wouldn't rate them as a separate system, though, because they really are the BE to BECMI and I am rating rules sytems based on their ENTIRE pile of rules, not just subsections of those rules.</p><p></p><p>Also, I have never played, much less read, or even glanced at a 0e book. I have no reference to put it on my scale.</p><p></p><p>And now my justifications for my ratings. I fully recognize that this is my opinion only, and that I am only listing some pros and cons (not every) that went into my rankings.</p><p></p><p>5e: Sticks to D20+MOD=DC resolution. Few additional rules 5 years in. Advantage/Disadvantage replaces 100s of +1/-1 modifiers. Spells and abilities mostly use pre-defined conditions rather than having multiple slightly different variations of "restrained".</p><p></p><p>4e: All characters have X at-will, Y encounter, and Z daily powers. You have a handy card that tells you exactly how the power works. D20+MOD=DC resolution for most everything. Every spell description says EXACTLY what it does with no interpretation. Complexity started to build with the number of splatbooks and the mini-reboot of the Essentials line of product that was confusing to newcomers.</p><p></p><p>Rules Cyclopedia: For the "basics" of the game this is indeed super simple, but as soon as you veer off the road into something other than attack/magic missle/use a skill the rules quickly become impossibly complex to remember. Everything is in one book! Easiest character creation, especially at 1st level. Sometimes you want to roll high, sometimes low, sometimes with a d20, sometimes a d6. Backwards AC chart.</p><p></p><p>3.X: Much simpler to teach basic combat and skill use rather than 1e/2e because of the D20+Mod=DC usage. Not too hard to create a character if you ignore feats, but once you add in feats, and more feats, and more feats, and more feats it became a nightmare. The best characters (powerwise) were built by those who remembered the locations of the 40000 feats to tweak your character the best. Just way too much material to incorporate and keep track of.</p><p></p><p>2e: Mostly the same game engine as 1e but organized and explained much much better. Proficiency as a core rule added complexity, especially with the weapon proficiencies. Kits were a total mess.</p><p></p><p>1e: While I know that 1e has less rules overall than 2e because of the billion splatbooks, the actual PHB and DMG of 1e is a monolith of near college level reading comprehension with zero to poor organization. A revised 1e book with a proper editor or technical writer to reorganize it would have saved a lot of the complexity.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JiffyPopTart, post: 7906983, member: 4881"] Least Complex <---5e--4e--Basic/Moldvay--3.x--2e--1e---> Most Complex A couple notes to add to the above line from me. In my mind "Basic", "Moldvay", "Holmes", "BECMI", and "Rules Cyclopedia" are all the same game system with minor tweaks and or content split up over different numbers of books. Much like in my mind 3.0 and 3.5 are the same game system. I do not separate them in my head. I didn't even know until today that there is a system people like "B/X" which they consider different enough from "Rules Cyclopedia" to be able to champion one over the other. If I were to rate JUST the Basic and Expert Erol Otis Dragon Cover rulebooks I would say they are certainly the least complex version of DnD. I wouldn't rate them as a separate system, though, because they really are the BE to BECMI and I am rating rules sytems based on their ENTIRE pile of rules, not just subsections of those rules. Also, I have never played, much less read, or even glanced at a 0e book. I have no reference to put it on my scale. And now my justifications for my ratings. I fully recognize that this is my opinion only, and that I am only listing some pros and cons (not every) that went into my rankings. 5e: Sticks to D20+MOD=DC resolution. Few additional rules 5 years in. Advantage/Disadvantage replaces 100s of +1/-1 modifiers. Spells and abilities mostly use pre-defined conditions rather than having multiple slightly different variations of "restrained". 4e: All characters have X at-will, Y encounter, and Z daily powers. You have a handy card that tells you exactly how the power works. D20+MOD=DC resolution for most everything. Every spell description says EXACTLY what it does with no interpretation. Complexity started to build with the number of splatbooks and the mini-reboot of the Essentials line of product that was confusing to newcomers. Rules Cyclopedia: For the "basics" of the game this is indeed super simple, but as soon as you veer off the road into something other than attack/magic missle/use a skill the rules quickly become impossibly complex to remember. Everything is in one book! Easiest character creation, especially at 1st level. Sometimes you want to roll high, sometimes low, sometimes with a d20, sometimes a d6. Backwards AC chart. 3.X: Much simpler to teach basic combat and skill use rather than 1e/2e because of the D20+Mod=DC usage. Not too hard to create a character if you ignore feats, but once you add in feats, and more feats, and more feats, and more feats it became a nightmare. The best characters (powerwise) were built by those who remembered the locations of the 40000 feats to tweak your character the best. Just way too much material to incorporate and keep track of. 2e: Mostly the same game engine as 1e but organized and explained much much better. Proficiency as a core rule added complexity, especially with the weapon proficiencies. Kits were a total mess. 1e: While I know that 1e has less rules overall than 2e because of the billion splatbooks, the actual PHB and DMG of 1e is a monolith of near college level reading comprehension with zero to poor organization. A revised 1e book with a proper editor or technical writer to reorganize it would have saved a lot of the complexity. [/QUOTE]
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