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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5462842" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think you're probably right about this, and that WotC miscalculated this when it came to 4e.I sort of agree with this, but am hesitant to open the door to my game being described as "fiction last"! Because that plays into the monoplogy/minis-game stuff that annoys me.I think the way I play 4e (and as best I can tell it's what the game has been built to support) is fiction first when it comes to the overall narrative and thematic progression of the game, but fiction second when it comes to building encounters/situations, and when it comes to the details of resolving them.The point about encounter building is well-known - assing a level first, and then create a fiction to explain that assignment (so metagame first, then the game follows). If you don't do any more of the fiction than choosing an appropriate-level monster from the MM, then you have Shadzar's minis-game 4e experience. But I think the game designers intend that the GM will do more (otherwise the stuff in the rulebooks on exploration would be redundant, apart from anything else). I certainly do more than this in creating a relevant fiction.The point about action resolution is also known, but I don't see the nuances discussed as often. An example from my game yesterday - the PCs were investigating a hot spring inside a temple bathhouse, and were attacked by a water weird. They quicly discovered that psychic/Will attacks had no effect - it was animated water, with no discernible mind or body. So they decided to (i) try and destroy/move the water, using radiant and thunder attacks, and (ii) to try and plug the spring, by knocking stones down into it and using the thunder attacks to drive them home. This decision as to how to tackle the situation, and the details of power use that then followed, were determined by a mixture of thinking about the fictional situation, and looking down their character sheets to see what sorts of abilities they had to bring to bear. (And I had already decided, in my prep notes, to resolve it as a complexity 2 skill challenge ie 6 successes before 3 failures.)Success came after the dwarf fighter jumped into the water, waited for it to surge up over him, and then pushed the rocks home with a sweep of his halberd (in mechanical terms this was Come and Get it combined with a successful Athletics check). And after the party had thus narrowly avoided all being drowned by the weird, the wizard performed a purify water ritual. I don't know if this was memories of AD&D on the part of the player, or just a spontaneous decision.Anyway, I'm not even sure that what I've just described counts as "fiction second" action resolution, but I'll readily concede that it's not quite White Plume Mountain.</blockquote>

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