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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5466745" data-attributes="member: 957">As I said multiple times, you can veto and, though nothing you previously said suggest this, you can double count a cool action.  Aside from those, it has no further determinative power.You have proven my point on two different levels.First, you proved that the first action can not solve the problem.  You specifically brought up an example of a first action *CAPABLE* of solving the problem. It is critically important to note that I never said the first action could not be one that SHOULD be able to solve the problem.  I said it just can't actually do it.  And you proved that by admitting that you are now obliged to find a way to stop it, whether you want to or not.  (Obviously you could just throw the skill challenge out the window, but since the point here is skill challenges, I think that would be a losing position.)So you have conceded and even demonstrated that no matter how excellent the first action may be, under a skill challenge it will not move the party to a condition of success.Second, you proved that the narrative is the slave to the mechanics.  Why is the genie grumpy?  Why is the site warded?  These are details that you are suddenly required to invent (back to "pop quiz role playing") because you are out of compliance with THE MECHANICS if you don't.  In order to obey the decree of the mechanics your narrative must conform itself to the system's demands.Yes, there are thousands of different narrative answers you could come up with.  But you seem to think that having a variety of options for following the mechanics means you are not following the mechanics.  The narrative you just made IS NOT important to the mechanics.  Within the on-going event the narrative has close to no importance to the mechanical resolution of the situation. My slogan means what it says, the mechanics control the narrative.  In your example the narrative you provided is clearly controlled by the mechanics.  You have demonstrated exactly what I am talking about.Yes, it is complex.  I agree with that.  But in your example those complications are all within a narrative that obeys the mechanics.</blockquote>

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