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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mardoc Redcloak" data-source="post: 3765602" data-attributes="member: 40569">And isn't it?True, the word "meter" might mean different things, but the concept we refer to when we say "meter" in this world remains the same.Arguments for subjective morality are necessarily negative: they must deny the existence of an objective standard. (Everyone acknowledges that subjective moral standards exist. The question is whether they are the best we can do.) But unlike the skeptical epistemological arguments, they are talking about the possibility of something's existence, not just our capability to know it.Fundamentally what an objective moral standard must be is a reason that can command every rational being's will, and if the subjectivists can prove that such a reason cannot exist, they have, by denying the possibility of an objective standard, successfully demonstrated that our actually existing moral standards are all subjective.No, I don't... but I am. My formal training, at least, is very limited.But they don't. There is no "imperative" here, just natural processes.What you are really saying is that certain physical laws select for genes that best aid replication, but this is not the stuff of "obligation"--no more than we are "obligated" to fall back down when we jump.Yes, but you can't tell me why I should care.To reference your earlier chess example, the fact that a certain move will make me lose doesn't mean that I have a reason to not move there--perhaps I want to lose this game, perhaps, indeed, I am obligated to do so.Similarly, contradicting the rules of the "evolutionary game" is something I will only recognize as "wrong" if I already am obligated to win the evolutionary game. What reason can you give that obligates me?I am with Kant. I think that the best you can ever do is tell me that it will satisfy some emotion of mine, or even all my emotions together (bring me happiness)--not that I truly ought to do it.It's just an accidental side-effect of rationality, I think.</blockquote>

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