Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The danger of the Three Pillars of D&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5819948" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>One option I suggested upthread was that PC + henchman might be a version of the "three pillars" strategy - so at the ball the player primarily plays his/her assassin, while the muscle waits outside guarding the carriage and keeping an eye out for enemy assasins, while in the dungeon the muscle takes the lead and fights the orcs, while the assassin hangs out in the middle and maybe kibbitzes with the mapper.</p><p></p><p>A different option might be for the GM to tailor adventures more closely to the areas of competence of his/her players' PCs, and/or for the players to work more closely together to build a cohesive party. I think this is a big issue in D&D, because perhaps more than any other RPG it has such a strong emphasis on party play.</p><p></p><p>I have seen games - mostly using 2nd ed AD&D - in which players build dapper assassins and then run them through the GM's dungeon crawls, or in which players build dumb muscle and have GMs who send them to ball after ball, but in my experience this tends to towards the dysfunctional end of the roleplaying spectrum.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps. It's a matter of degree. And of mechanics - for example, it's fairly easy to envision mechanics in which the dapper assassin, caught in melee, is able to prevail through wit and deftness. Such mechanics probably would have a high metagame component, however, meaning they're probably not going to be part of core D&Dnext.</p><p></p><p>But when I think of 3 pillars PCs, and especially ones that don't rely so heavily on metagame mechanics, I think of Conan, Aragorn, Merlin, The Grey Mouser, or if I go outside fantasy tropes then a slew of superheroes, James Bond, etc. Whereas dumb muscle and dapper assassins seem to me just not to be 3 pillars archetypes. If the game is really about the 3 pillars, then I'm not sure it should be going out of its way to include dapper assassins and dumb muscle among its PC build options (certainly not in the core).</p><p></p><p>I agree that the occasional quirky failure can be meaningful. If these generate the best long term stories, though, then I want to have a second look at whether the RPG's mechanics are really doing a good job of supporting the sort of play it claims to be supporting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5819948, member: 42582"] One option I suggested upthread was that PC + henchman might be a version of the "three pillars" strategy - so at the ball the player primarily plays his/her assassin, while the muscle waits outside guarding the carriage and keeping an eye out for enemy assasins, while in the dungeon the muscle takes the lead and fights the orcs, while the assassin hangs out in the middle and maybe kibbitzes with the mapper. A different option might be for the GM to tailor adventures more closely to the areas of competence of his/her players' PCs, and/or for the players to work more closely together to build a cohesive party. I think this is a big issue in D&D, because perhaps more than any other RPG it has such a strong emphasis on party play. I have seen games - mostly using 2nd ed AD&D - in which players build dapper assassins and then run them through the GM's dungeon crawls, or in which players build dumb muscle and have GMs who send them to ball after ball, but in my experience this tends to towards the dysfunctional end of the roleplaying spectrum. Perhaps. It's a matter of degree. And of mechanics - for example, it's fairly easy to envision mechanics in which the dapper assassin, caught in melee, is able to prevail through wit and deftness. Such mechanics probably would have a high metagame component, however, meaning they're probably not going to be part of core D&Dnext. But when I think of 3 pillars PCs, and especially ones that don't rely so heavily on metagame mechanics, I think of Conan, Aragorn, Merlin, The Grey Mouser, or if I go outside fantasy tropes then a slew of superheroes, James Bond, etc. Whereas dumb muscle and dapper assassins seem to me just not to be 3 pillars archetypes. If the game is really about the 3 pillars, then I'm not sure it should be going out of its way to include dapper assassins and dumb muscle among its PC build options (certainly not in the core). I agree that the occasional quirky failure can be meaningful. If these generate the best long term stories, though, then I want to have a second look at whether the RPG's mechanics are really doing a good job of supporting the sort of play it claims to be supporting. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The danger of the Three Pillars of D&D
Top