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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 279450" data-attributes="member: 326">Hi the Serge mate! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />True.  Theres nothing to say there are not Greater Power (or above) Demons and Devils. Simply that such beings are generally never involved in the mundane politicking of the Outer Planes.There can be a number of reasons for this:Imprisoned: Over the eons cosmic threats must have been either destroyed or imprisoned - otherwise the multiverse wouldn't exist as it does now.eg. Tharizdun.Checked: The actions of certain beings are often opposed by counterparts.  eg. Ahrimans actions are 'checked' by his brother Ormazd.Uninterested: Such cosmic beings are uninterested in the day to day machinations of planar politicking. Either prefering to ignore them or leave such mundane tasks to underlings or avatars. In the same way that Gods don't interfere with the mortal realm; Ubergods generally don't interfere with the Divine Realm.eg. Azathoth.Alter Ego: Many such beings have divine alter egos and as such are actually well known gods.eg. Nerull is really the Daemon Ruler Infestix! Interlopers: Planar interlopers may be powerful enough to establish their own kingdoms but often impeded from further exploits by the true natives.eg. Ravana (Demon King of Rakshasas) is a Greater God of the Abyss though not a Tanar'ri.Infinite: The Planes are infinite. Think about this in universal terms. On a layer of the Abyss controlled by Demogorgon there may be a hundred other powers who he is unaware of because they exist so far away. Remember you can't teleport sight unseen (without risk) so even if a Demon can teleport safely 5 miles (horizon) every round thats only 2.5 billion miles every 1000 years. That wouldn't even put them out of our Solar System - nevermind out of the galaxy - nevermind out of our supercluster. So there could be outerplanar pockets where other deities or demons are in control.eg. In our campaign Graz'zt rules the Abyss, but so does Mabelode (the Moorcockian 'King of Swords') and so do the Chaos Gods of Warhammer (Khorne; Slaanesh; Nurgle; Tzeentch etc.)So you have a situation whereby: - Nerull rules the Daemons. (Alter Ego)- Lucifer ruled Hell but was locked up by the Arch-devils. (Imprisonment)- Ojukalazogadit* (most powerful demon of the Abyss?) doesn't care about day to day politicking. (uninterested)- Ahrimans activities are stymied by his brother. (checked)- Ravana is more powerful than individual Tanar'ri Princes but would be opposed by a unified Tanar'ri front should he attempt to conquer the Abyss. Obviously Tanar'ri are racists. (interloper)*See the Gord the Rogue novels! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Well the original source identifies Demogorgon/Asmodeus as Lesser Powers.Monte Cook may argue that the original Monster Manual never said they were gods - but it never said they weren't either!So if you say they are all too weak then what can you possibly be basing this conjecture upon!?  The thing to remember about evil cosmic powerhouses like Ahriman is that they are either directly opposed or face opposition should they act beyond their sphere of influence.Thats why we have the current cosmic status quo.Not necssarily, but I have read that article (though I don't own it). It was in a 'Best of Dragon Magazine' that I saw it.Lucifer was chained in Hell by the other Arch-Devils. I do remember he had 333hp.Scott Greene (aka Graz'zt on these boards) is the person to see about this - his Dragon magazine collection is very extensive.Try asking here:<a href="http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27" target="_blank">http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27</a>I certainly think there could be Intermediate Power Demon Princes and Arch-Devils - but you would have to explain the reasoning behind their increase in power.eg. In our campaign Graz'zt is an Intermediate Power because he conquered the Abyss defeating all his rivals to that claim.Asmodeus is still a Lesser Power, since (although he is the most powerful Arch-Duke) his position is contested by Mephisto and Baalzebul.Nerull-Infestix is a Greater Power, as well as ruling the Daemons he is also bolstered by extensive worship on the Prime Material Plane.  On the contrary I advocate something on an even grander scale!However, I can find all the examples I need from real world mythology and occult references - so I don't need to boost Asmodeus unnecessarily.  I don't see a dualistic system explaining everything.Certainly Ahriman is not the greatest force of evil in the multiverse - that is clear.I imagine I have read the gist of it then. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Just replied! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Still it should be an interesting read for us! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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