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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Immort" data-source="post: 337860" data-attributes="member: 2001">I believe Jeremy already answered the questions about persistent spells and the true damage bonus of divine favor being +6 not +5.  Also the reason the I was calculating a fighters bab (because of the persistent divine power).  I was calculating a cleric 19/templar 1 because of a mention from an earlier post.So because both the PA and the cleric started with the same bab at the beginning, (20,15,10,5) and basing the example on both characters having equal stats, and equal permanent equipment (+5 bow and bracers of archery), and frankly throwing in free +3 arrows for the PA even though he would have to spend resources to get them that the cleric wouldn't, the long and the short of it is that the primary dividing point came down to a persistent divine favor vs. power attack.  (and Kai Lord was dead set on mentioning the fact that he could do 20 extra points of damage which is why I calculated at that rate)(yes a more intelligent tactitian would only use about 10 points or so, but Kai Lord only seems to care about making shots that bend all the laws of probability)If the PA didn't power attack, the cleric would be +6 more to hit and damge than him, because of the divine favor.  If he did power attack, the attrtition to his BAB would invariably cost him damage because no matter what the bonus to damage is on an attack, it is utterly meaningless if it doesn't connect.  When yer 20th level, ya can't be expectin' ta go up against critters with 15 ACs.  It just ain't gunna happen.  I can truly appreciate someone being emotionally attached to a character class, nothing wrong with that.  I can also appreaciate dreaming of desparate shots that save the day, fer cryin' out loud it is a fantasy game.  All I am sayin', is that from a mathmatical stand point, a properly buffed cleric will have a noticable advantage over any other class.  If you wanted to start two characters with identical stats buck naked with no prepared spells, and no magic items, in the middle of a field with exactly matching bows and a quiver of nonmagical arrows, of course the PA will be shooting better . . . for a short time.I don't base my assessment of a characters worth on situations that NEVER HAPPEN IN GAMEPLAY.  Sure knowing you can do 144 points of damage with a single arrow is great.  It will never happen in your lifetime, but it is great knowing that it technically could.  I am much happier knowing I can deliver a constant and reliable 137.75 to an AC 30 creature (Enkhidu didn't realize where all my numbers were coming from but they were still valid).  Even using Enkhidu's more intelligent use of power attack the PA still comes in at a poor man's 105.5.Now, if a good PRC archer has a good spell caster to buff him up correctly, he will easily be the equal or even superior of a cleric archer.  My point was, as a stand alone class, the cleric is a more able arrow slinger.  This ain't spittin' on any other class, the truth is 3E is HEAVILY weighted towards spell casting classes.  Period.  Just the way it was designed.Anyhow, this is where I check outta this thread.-Immort</blockquote>

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