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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeremy" data-source="post: 338002" data-attributes="member: 4036">That's true.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  But also in your example, your archer didn't fire any more than one shot.  So he didn't pay the price of his -20 to hit power attack.  And he also shot at point blank range, where any number of complications can arise.  And he also sneak attacked a dragon at 30' range with when you consider blindsight and the fact that the dragons attacked him, should have been impossible.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />So there are a number of flaws in your example.  I recommend you stat him up and display him for comparison.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But you're right, my example wasn't to show that clerics are better archers, characters, or oyster chefs.  It was just to show that on their very best day, they too can kill dragons in an arrow per dragon if as you said "set up the absolute best conditions you can imagine for the cleric".  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Of course, having an attack bonus of +54 without magical items, 6 attacks, and full spell casting ability are all benefits that the cleric has without magical items.  I just through them in to fill the "absolute best conditions" clause and to illustrate more realistically what characters are like at the 20th level of play.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />As to you CRG and your plan to bet me that I can't design an even better PA smack, you've got two problems.  One, I don't have Silver Marches yet (got laid off <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />), and two, reverse psychology doesn't work if you tell the victim what you are doing.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  That is unless they are obsessive compulsive.   And I'm just compulsive, not obsessive.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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