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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4025722" data-attributes="member: 18280">OK, then.&nbsp; &quot;Does the end justify the means?&quot; is almost always going to be examined by looking at some unsavory means toward a desired end, right?&nbsp; Coping with the consequences is another important part of this theme.Both simulationist and narrative play are going to require (1) a desired end, and (2) some unsavory means.&nbsp; Both a simulationist game and a narrative game, presumably, allow you to determine what end you desire, and, within the shared context of the game, what means are available.In general, a simulationist game attempts to make things fit the simulated &quot;world&quot;.&nbsp; So, if the world included an invasion from another region, you can attempt to broker an alliance with your former enemies to stave off that invasion (Deep Space Nine).&nbsp; Or you could decide that kidnapping the mayor's kid is an acceptable means to gaining the magic item he keeps in his vault.&nbsp; Either way, you are using the tools available to you to explore/answer a thematic question in your own way, based upon the underlying shared assumptions about the game.In general, a narrativist game attempts to make things fit the unfolding &quot;narrative&quot;.&nbsp; So, if the narrative included an invasion from another region, you can attempt to broker an alliance with your former enemies to stave off that invasion (Deep Space Nine).&nbsp; Or you could decide that kidnapping the mayor's kid is an acceptable means to gaining the magic item he keeps in his vault.&nbsp; Either way, you are using the tools available to you to explore/answer a thematic question in your own way, based upon the underlying shared assumptions about the game.The rules may determine how much control over the shared world you have, and how you are able to exercise that control, but they don't change the general means available to explore a theme.IMHO, of course.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4025722, member: 18280"] OK, then. "Does the end justify the means?" is almost always going to be examined by looking at some unsavory means toward a desired end, right? Coping with the consequences is another important part of this theme. Both simulationist and narrative play are going to require (1) a desired end, and (2) some unsavory means. Both a simulationist game and a narrative game, presumably, allow you to determine what end you desire, and, within the shared context of the game, what means are available. In general, a simulationist game attempts to make things fit the simulated "world". So, if the world included an invasion from another region, you can attempt to broker an alliance with your former enemies to stave off that invasion (Deep Space Nine). Or you could decide that kidnapping the mayor's kid is an acceptable means to gaining the magic item he keeps in his vault. Either way, you are using the tools available to you to explore/answer a thematic question in your own way, based upon the underlying shared assumptions about the game. In general, a narrativist game attempts to make things fit the unfolding "narrative". So, if the narrative included an invasion from another region, you can attempt to broker an alliance with your former enemies to stave off that invasion (Deep Space Nine). Or you could decide that kidnapping the mayor's kid is an acceptable means to gaining the magic item he keeps in his vault. Either way, you are using the tools available to you to explore/answer a thematic question in your own way, based upon the underlying shared assumptions about the game. The rules may determine how much control over the shared world you have, and how you are able to exercise that control, but they don't change the general means available to explore a theme. IMHO, of course. RC [/QUOTE]

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