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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 4032901" data-attributes="member: 42582">But players speak and understand &quot;metagamish&quot;, and they translate it into &quot;ingamish&quot; via the process of running their PCs (and doing whatever else they are permitted to under the rules).I agree there can be a confusion here.But doesn't high-concept simulationism have at least implicit metagame when the players agree to subordinate their mechanical decision-making to genre imperatives? Or does that only happen in a poorly-designed ruleset - a perfect high-concept ruleset wouldn't permit genre violation (like Pendragon, perhaps)?That's a pretty strong thing to say given that narrativist play takes place using RPGs (eg Champions, Tunnels and Trolls, Marvel Superheroes, OD&amp;D - to mention some of the mainstream games that Ron Edwards discusses narrativist play of in his essays).Maybe what you mean is that it's not how you like to play an RPG.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 4032901, member: 42582"] But players speak and understand "metagamish", and they translate it into "ingamish" via the process of running their PCs (and doing whatever else they are permitted to under the rules). I agree there can be a confusion here. But doesn't high-concept simulationism have at least implicit metagame when the players agree to subordinate their mechanical decision-making to genre imperatives? Or does that only happen in a poorly-designed ruleset - a perfect high-concept ruleset wouldn't permit genre violation (like Pendragon, perhaps)? That's a pretty strong thing to say given that narrativist play takes place using RPGs (eg Champions, Tunnels and Trolls, Marvel Superheroes, OD&D - to mention some of the mainstream games that Ron Edwards discusses narrativist play of in his essays). Maybe what you mean is that it's not how you like to play an RPG. [/QUOTE]

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