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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8438371" data-attributes="member: 22779">See, but here's the thing.  The only difference is scale.  I mean, 3e fractured the fanbase and led to a competing product - the OSR.  Does that mean that 3e was "crap"?  Well, no.  So, at what point does the number of previous fans who don't adopt become a failure?  50+1%?  4e's failure is nowhere near as simple as it gets painted out to be.But, anyway, while I do think that canon gatekeepers contributed to 4e's woes, there were so many other issues going on, it probably wouldn't have changed anything.The funny thing is though, every single thing that people complained about 4e doing to canon, 5e has done.  Changed the Realms considerably.  Ravenloft gets a complete reboot, and, poof, canon doesn't really matter.  One of the most successful RPG products ever produced.  Pretty much every single monster in the 5e Monster Manual has new lore, largely divorced from previous lore (since when are kobolds slaves to dragons?  Since when do dragons keep slaves?)  but, because people LIKE 5e, all those lore changes don't matter.No, you're going to have to bring up a much better argument to convince me that lore matters for anything other than a means to force particular tastes onto the group.</blockquote>