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*Dungeons & Dragons
The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8777463" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>The whole issue with magic is that no one will allow a non-magic character to do anything that a 3rd level caster can't do better.</p><p></p><p>A 20th level Assassin cannot instantly kill an opponent (assuming it has enough HP to survive the hit of course). Meanwhile, the casters have 15 different ways to instantly kill that same opponent. Good grief, a non-magical character can't even choke something. </p><p></p><p>Let that sink in for a moment. It is literally impossible for my non-magical character to choke something. Never minding stunning it. A 3rd level wizard with Tasha's Hideous Laughter can incapacitate anything in the game (granted, the chances are pretty low for bigger critters, but, still not zero) for 1 minute. A dragon can be incapacitated by a 3rd level caster (again, ignoring things like auto-saves and whatnot - stay with me on this). Granted, again, the chances are very small, but, again, not zero.</p><p></p><p>Your 20th level fighter cannot do this. Full stop. As in literally cannot hit something on the head and stun it for a minute. It is impossible to KO an opponent without getting through all its HP. </p><p></p><p>When people talk about wanting a lower magic D&D, at least to me, THIS is what we're talking about. I don't want a fighter that can fly or blow up a house or anything like that. I just want a fighter that can do stuff that a 5th level caster can do. Hell, I'd be happy if a fighter (or non-magic type) could do what a THIRD level caster could do.</p><p></p><p>It cannot possibly be a balance thing. If Tasha's Hideous Laughter is perfectly fine for a 3rd level caster, then giving that same sort of effect - 1 minute of stun, save every round - to a 12th level fighter cannot possibly be broken. If Thunder Wave can push back opponents 10 feet from a 1st level caster, surely a 9th level Monk should be able to do the same thing? </p><p></p><p>I just don't get the push back here. What is the problem with granting non-magical characters plausible effects that are similar in nature to what VERY low level casters get?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8777463, member: 22779"] The whole issue with magic is that no one will allow a non-magic character to do anything that a 3rd level caster can't do better. A 20th level Assassin cannot instantly kill an opponent (assuming it has enough HP to survive the hit of course). Meanwhile, the casters have 15 different ways to instantly kill that same opponent. Good grief, a non-magical character can't even choke something. Let that sink in for a moment. It is literally impossible for my non-magical character to choke something. Never minding stunning it. A 3rd level wizard with Tasha's Hideous Laughter can incapacitate anything in the game (granted, the chances are pretty low for bigger critters, but, still not zero) for 1 minute. A dragon can be incapacitated by a 3rd level caster (again, ignoring things like auto-saves and whatnot - stay with me on this). Granted, again, the chances are very small, but, again, not zero. Your 20th level fighter cannot do this. Full stop. As in literally cannot hit something on the head and stun it for a minute. It is impossible to KO an opponent without getting through all its HP. When people talk about wanting a lower magic D&D, at least to me, THIS is what we're talking about. I don't want a fighter that can fly or blow up a house or anything like that. I just want a fighter that can do stuff that a 5th level caster can do. Hell, I'd be happy if a fighter (or non-magic type) could do what a THIRD level caster could do. It cannot possibly be a balance thing. If Tasha's Hideous Laughter is perfectly fine for a 3rd level caster, then giving that same sort of effect - 1 minute of stun, save every round - to a 12th level fighter cannot possibly be broken. If Thunder Wave can push back opponents 10 feet from a 1st level caster, surely a 9th level Monk should be able to do the same thing? I just don't get the push back here. What is the problem with granting non-magical characters plausible effects that are similar in nature to what VERY low level casters get? [/QUOTE]
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