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The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8782953" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Indeed, but there's a few other considerations here:</p><p></p><p>--- those items you refer to are items rather than inherent abilities, meaning the DM can easily choose not to include them</p><p>--- because they are items, not everyone will have one - sure one archer might have a Quiver of Ehlonna* but not every archer will. Removal of arrow tracking has the same effect as giving a Q of E to everyone.</p><p>--- in 1e and 2e items were far easier to destroy, often making them a less-than-permanent solution</p><p></p><p>* - I'm assuming this is the quiver that never runs out of ammo, I don't think I've ever seen one in play as either DM or player.</p><p></p><p>For items, this is true. For abilities, not so much; nor for spells now that players get to choose them rather than have to rely on random luck and-or finding them in the field.</p><p></p><p>To be (potentially) able to, yes. To automatically have it happen, no. There's a big difference.</p><p></p><p>OK, I'll plead guilty to that. High level play tends to get a bit too supers-y for me; with the threshold being both fuzzy and variable by class and-or campaign.</p><p></p><p>The issue isn't teleporting out of dungeons, but being able to safely teleport in to them. That's where it can get broken, as 3e's scry-buff-teleport nonsense pointed out to the n'th degree.</p><p></p><p>An in-progress example of how a single high-level character can go right over the top: </p><p></p><p>In the 1e-variant game I play in, my current character is an 11th-level MU with a hella good spell repertoire. Region's lighting is never better than deep twilight, visibility maybe half a mile at best even with night-sight. We're up against a fleet of about 15 ships*, 9 at sea and the rest either in or just leaving port. We have our own ship, but just the one. The rest of the party sank two ships and disabled one while fleeing on our ship. I cast poly-self and took off as a seagull, and singlehandedly sank one ship and disabled another four...all without casting a single AoE damage spell. I'm now ashore near their base port (about 10 miles from the action at sea), acting as a James-Bond-like agent behind enemy lines, and next session - unless I either get very unlucky or (far more likely!) do something stupid - given a few days that entire navy could be at my mercy.</p><p></p><p>Fun? Hell yeah! Broken? Very much so - one character acting alone is making a mockery of naval warfare.</p><p></p><p>* - mostly Mary-Rose/Spanish-Armada era galleons with some same-era corvettes sprinkled in, all packing between 2 and 6 cannons each. Our ship is a small 2-gunner, a galleon I think.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8782953, member: 29398"] Indeed, but there's a few other considerations here: --- those items you refer to are items rather than inherent abilities, meaning the DM can easily choose not to include them --- because they are items, not everyone will have one - sure one archer might have a Quiver of Ehlonna* but not every archer will. Removal of arrow tracking has the same effect as giving a Q of E to everyone. --- in 1e and 2e items were far easier to destroy, often making them a less-than-permanent solution * - I'm assuming this is the quiver that never runs out of ammo, I don't think I've ever seen one in play as either DM or player. For items, this is true. For abilities, not so much; nor for spells now that players get to choose them rather than have to rely on random luck and-or finding them in the field. To be (potentially) able to, yes. To automatically have it happen, no. There's a big difference. OK, I'll plead guilty to that. High level play tends to get a bit too supers-y for me; with the threshold being both fuzzy and variable by class and-or campaign. The issue isn't teleporting out of dungeons, but being able to safely teleport in to them. That's where it can get broken, as 3e's scry-buff-teleport nonsense pointed out to the n'th degree. An in-progress example of how a single high-level character can go right over the top: In the 1e-variant game I play in, my current character is an 11th-level MU with a hella good spell repertoire. Region's lighting is never better than deep twilight, visibility maybe half a mile at best even with night-sight. We're up against a fleet of about 15 ships*, 9 at sea and the rest either in or just leaving port. We have our own ship, but just the one. The rest of the party sank two ships and disabled one while fleeing on our ship. I cast poly-self and took off as a seagull, and singlehandedly sank one ship and disabled another four...all without casting a single AoE damage spell. I'm now ashore near their base port (about 10 miles from the action at sea), acting as a James-Bond-like agent behind enemy lines, and next session - unless I either get very unlucky or (far more likely!) do something stupid - given a few days that entire navy could be at my mercy. Fun? Hell yeah! Broken? Very much so - one character acting alone is making a mockery of naval warfare. * - mostly Mary-Rose/Spanish-Armada era galleons with some same-era corvettes sprinkled in, all packing between 2 and 6 cannons each. Our ship is a small 2-gunner, a galleon I think. [/QUOTE]
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