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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 8789141" data-attributes="member: 82504">When resolving important (not physical) conflict ie in skill challenges they are definitely supposed to have the same story impact if you do not let them do it when it is less significant that seems odd to me.  ....  Note when the rituals are most useful to the story ie most impactful they are the same as skill value to me  that says something about the power of skill use to resolve difficult situations.Easy situations that arent story important hmmm is that really the measure you want to make?There is a middle ground  of things that skill challenges are not as applicable at as they might be for instance when they arent a team oriented activity for instance. I think if you under sell skills in such a context that is on you ... and does not follow the general pattern of skill being able to achieve things like magic elsewhere.  (if you want allow them to use a Healing surge to buff it identically to how the guidelines do during a skill challenge or similarly give them the perfect result only on a crit)Page 42 lets us use a slot from your normal powers to enable an improvised maneuver obviously involving acrobatics but it is generally a combat stunt (not clear why the same paradigm would not apply to non-combat stunts nor why you would not want it to?).  That slot usage to enhance what might even be an unrelated activity is also in Skill challenges. Its another form of digging deep.Note all skill checks might not even be "level appropriate"  but a skill challenge analogous skill check needs to be... while I definitely think a skill check not in a skill challenge should be able to achieve a spell like potency or ritual like one that does not mean just any check (nor necessarily cost free see page 42 and SC)They are much like specialized applications of skill you learn and generally seem like protracted use of skill and to achieve specialized results, sometimes based on different skill than normally might achieve a similar result and comparable to rituals in power but not method with a HS cost instead of components (which they actually added to some rituals too later.) Few skill checks are normal.They arent a magical effect and no it didnt "generally" use skill rolls but could they were a generally reliable effect costing HS but considered applied via an associated skillIt was in Martial power 2  (Feb 2010 is less than 2 years in, not particularly late in the game), but they weren't developed very far... I have speculations about why.Not feats at least  not in the D&D sense ... in a general sense feats are a good word, they are utility powers comparable to spells and other utility powers yes.Just options available because you have a skill they demonstrate skill achieving things directly analogous in power to utility spells.yes you were misremembering and yes they really just confirmed that skill could achieve what spells could.If you want some of that in 5e allow spending the superiority dice like maneuvers (see commanding presence for precedent)or perhaps spend a Hit Die to really buff a skill use effect up in some fashion.orPick up Level up as it has some of it too where you spend exertions to achieve greater effects.Note 5e made a lot of rituals just plain free... which were admittedly effectively free when you reached higher levels in 4e. So not sure how exactly a 5e Martial Practices analog would work or I would have made it already.Allowing skill application to achieve spell/ritual etc power potency was a ubiquitous pattern really associated with balance.The pattern seems to me solid enough I can make improvising a ritual based on 2 level appropriate skill checks probably hard (since the improvised ritual would presumably be a "perfect" ritual for the situation)... the effect of a failure I would also draw from things I do in Skill challenges (a healing surge loss might be a minimum), It would have ritual cost perhaps a bit higher than its norm since some of the ritual costs are a bit like flavor it feels justified in costing more... ok this is off topicI did not necessarily tell people when they are in skill challenges (though in chases yeh). Some DMs always do perhaps so they have a clue about whether expending more resources is going to be useful?Any way it looks like I massively rambled.</blockquote>

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