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The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8789984" data-attributes="member: 6987520"><p>Do you realize three of your three quotes are about an "<em>Alchem<strong>ist</strong></em>", not Alchem<strong>y</strong>?</p><p></p><p>I am sure an "Alchemist" is likely also proficient in the Herbalism kit, which is what is actually required for crafting a healing potion according to Xanathar's Guide. An "Alchemist" is also likely proficient in other tools and kits, and certainly might have some spellcasting features. I don't recall an Alchemist statblock... <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" /></p><p></p><p>Anywho, your second quote is about a "special alchemical procedure" ability granted as a class feature, it is NOT normal alchemy. It is special and done by a magical class--that is what makes that magical. Not the alchemy.</p><p></p><p>You said:</p><p></p><p>And alchemy is not used to make healing potions (Herbalism kits are used). Nor is alchemy used to make magical oils by the rules. In fact, like <em>MOST</em> of 5E, this point is really simply "up to the DM" as usual. The rules for crafting magical items (other than healing potions) simply state that proficiency in the required tools (or kit I would imagine?) is necessary. So, for example, how <em>DO</em> you craft Oil of Sharpness?? Do you need proficiency in the Alchemist kit, or Herbalist kit, or something else entirely? All the rules tell us is the CR for an appropriate creature and the costs...</p><p></p><p></p><p>You said it was used to "<em>make healing potions, magical oils, and such</em>." I refuted Alchemy isn't used for any of those things: according to what we have in the rules, it is used for making mundane items from the chapter on Equipment (one dose of acid, alchemist's fire, antitoxin, oil, perfume, or soap). So, for alchemy's uses in the game, that's it (as far as the written rules are concerned anyway...).</p><p></p><p>Now, clearly (from your quotes) an Alchem<strong>IST</strong> can do more, but from what we have about Alchemy, it is not due to alchemy, but must be through some other agency.</p><p></p><p>So, given Alchemy's <em>actual </em>uses in the game, it isn't magical. That is not objectively wrong as you seem to subjectively believe. The only thread which <em>might</em> give you some hope is about crafting other magical items... Is alchemy used for those magical oils, etc.? That, unfortunately, is up to the DM.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, I would rule from my own games Alchemy would be used in that context. But even that, IMO, does not make Alchemy itself "magical", it would be part of a process... and the entire process is required for "magic" to happen.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again Alchemists can create healing potions, but would require proficiency in the Herbalism kit to do so, which they could easily have IMO.</p><p></p><p><strong>(bold added) </strong>IME I can't think of a single D&D game (in any edition) where the DM didn't incorporate magical herbs or plants, or at least acknowledge their existence in their game.... but YMMV of course! I guess it could certainly be possible, but I would not feel personally that it would be "most games" by any stretch of the imagination.</p><p></p><p></p><p>They very well might be. We don't have a statblock for an Alchemist that I know of... Given the new trend for statblocks, an Alchemist certainly might have some spellcasting capabilities. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8789984, member: 6987520"] Do you realize three of your three quotes are about an "[I]Alchem[B]ist[/B][/I]", not Alchem[B]y[/B]? I am sure an "Alchemist" is likely also proficient in the Herbalism kit, which is what is actually required for crafting a healing potion according to Xanathar's Guide. An "Alchemist" is also likely proficient in other tools and kits, and certainly might have some spellcasting features. I don't recall an Alchemist statblock... 🤷♂️ Anywho, your second quote is about a "special alchemical procedure" ability granted as a class feature, it is NOT normal alchemy. It is special and done by a magical class--that is what makes that magical. Not the alchemy. You said: And alchemy is not used to make healing potions (Herbalism kits are used). Nor is alchemy used to make magical oils by the rules. In fact, like [I]MOST[/I] of 5E, this point is really simply "up to the DM" as usual. The rules for crafting magical items (other than healing potions) simply state that proficiency in the required tools (or kit I would imagine?) is necessary. So, for example, how [I]DO[/I] you craft Oil of Sharpness?? Do you need proficiency in the Alchemist kit, or Herbalist kit, or something else entirely? All the rules tell us is the CR for an appropriate creature and the costs... You said it was used to "[I]make healing potions, magical oils, and such[/I]." I refuted Alchemy isn't used for any of those things: according to what we have in the rules, it is used for making mundane items from the chapter on Equipment (one dose of acid, alchemist's fire, antitoxin, oil, perfume, or soap). So, for alchemy's uses in the game, that's it (as far as the written rules are concerned anyway...). Now, clearly (from your quotes) an Alchem[B]IST[/B] can do more, but from what we have about Alchemy, it is not due to alchemy, but must be through some other agency. So, given Alchemy's [I]actual [/I]uses in the game, it isn't magical. That is not objectively wrong as you seem to subjectively believe. The only thread which [I]might[/I] give you some hope is about crafting other magical items... Is alchemy used for those magical oils, etc.? That, unfortunately, is up to the DM. Honestly, I would rule from my own games Alchemy would be used in that context. But even that, IMO, does not make Alchemy itself "magical", it would be part of a process... and the entire process is required for "magic" to happen. Again Alchemists can create healing potions, but would require proficiency in the Herbalism kit to do so, which they could easily have IMO. [B](bold added) [/B]IME I can't think of a single D&D game (in any edition) where the DM didn't incorporate magical herbs or plants, or at least acknowledge their existence in their game.... but YMMV of course! I guess it could certainly be possible, but I would not feel personally that it would be "most games" by any stretch of the imagination. They very well might be. We don't have a statblock for an Alchemist that I know of... Given the new trend for statblocks, an Alchemist certainly might have some spellcasting capabilities. 🤷♂️ [/QUOTE]
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