Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8796831" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>Well, yeah. The DM can make just about anything adversarial.</p><p></p><p>Personality is not intelligence. Personality is the barbarian being an irritable jerk, the cleric being a jolly, peace loving person, etc. That remains, so the barbarian as a T-rex is going to be dangerous as hell to everyone, where the cleric as a T-rex isn't going to be hurting anyone unless very hungry or attacked.</p><p></p><p>The reason it calls out lack of hands and speech for spellcasting is that there are some very smart animals out there. The giant ape is at 7 and the ape is at 6. That's easily in PC range for intelligence and the rules don't set minimum stats for spellcasting any longer. If a PC rolls a 4 for intelligence, he can choose to be a wizard and cast spells. </p><p></p><p>The player is not going to have the same level of control that he had before. Even if you allow the player to act however he wishes, the simple inability to cast any spells is reduced agency if he's a spellcaster, and the lack of hands keeps the fighter from using weapons, so his agency is reduced as well. He can no longer do all the things he used to be able to do. Additionally, the spell also says in the same sentence as the lack of hands and speech affecting spellcasting, "<strong>The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of the new form</strong>..." That portion of the sentence imposes other restrictions to agency that go above and beyond the spellcasting limitations.</p><p></p><p>There is no adversarial DMing going on by telling the player he's going to have to roleplay the intelligence of the beast he is being turned into. That isn't DM vs. Player mentality. It's just an impartial ruling that you happen to disagree with.</p><p></p><p>As I mentioned earlier in the thread, WotC isn't very good at judging animal stats. It gives the common house spider a strength of 2, which would allow that little sucker to drag 30 pounds across the floor. Spiders are strong for their size, but there's no daddy long legs that dragging 1 pound anywhere, let alone 30.</p><p></p><p>Actually, the only thing that is unchanged in the polymorph spell is personality. It explicitly limits actions based on the nature(not form) of the new creature, and spellcasting based on lack of hands(unnecessary distinction if nature=form) and speech.</p><p></p><p>Absolutely. I wouldn't be upset at a table that let players run free with their choices while polymorphed or a table where it's limited like I read the spell. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8796831, member: 23751"] Well, yeah. The DM can make just about anything adversarial. Personality is not intelligence. Personality is the barbarian being an irritable jerk, the cleric being a jolly, peace loving person, etc. That remains, so the barbarian as a T-rex is going to be dangerous as hell to everyone, where the cleric as a T-rex isn't going to be hurting anyone unless very hungry or attacked. The reason it calls out lack of hands and speech for spellcasting is that there are some very smart animals out there. The giant ape is at 7 and the ape is at 6. That's easily in PC range for intelligence and the rules don't set minimum stats for spellcasting any longer. If a PC rolls a 4 for intelligence, he can choose to be a wizard and cast spells. The player is not going to have the same level of control that he had before. Even if you allow the player to act however he wishes, the simple inability to cast any spells is reduced agency if he's a spellcaster, and the lack of hands keeps the fighter from using weapons, so his agency is reduced as well. He can no longer do all the things he used to be able to do. Additionally, the spell also says in the same sentence as the lack of hands and speech affecting spellcasting, "[B]The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of the new form[/B]..." That portion of the sentence imposes other restrictions to agency that go above and beyond the spellcasting limitations. There is no adversarial DMing going on by telling the player he's going to have to roleplay the intelligence of the beast he is being turned into. That isn't DM vs. Player mentality. It's just an impartial ruling that you happen to disagree with. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, WotC isn't very good at judging animal stats. It gives the common house spider a strength of 2, which would allow that little sucker to drag 30 pounds across the floor. Spiders are strong for their size, but there's no daddy long legs that dragging 1 pound anywhere, let alone 30. Actually, the only thing that is unchanged in the polymorph spell is personality. It explicitly limits actions based on the nature(not form) of the new creature, and spellcasting based on lack of hands(unnecessary distinction if nature=form) and speech. Absolutely. I wouldn't be upset at a table that let players run free with their choices while polymorphed or a table where it's limited like I read the spell. :) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D
Top