The Deep

JoeGKushner

Adventurer
So what is the Deep? It's a 256 page, $39.99 priced sourcebook to bring any d20 fantasy based campaign to an underwater environment. The book is meant for either starting an underwater campaign or bringing your campaign underwater. It's not a book on boats, sea battles or boat racing. It's about being underwater and the underwater experience.

To help set the tone, the book provides just about anything you need to start such a campaign. This includes new races, feats, prestige classes, spells, magic items, monsters, campaign setting, NPCs, and potential tie ins to other settings like Bluffside.

The book provides rules for deep sea exploration. The good news is that it reminds me of the old Of Ships and the Sea by TSR back in the day with its discussion of how water depth can effect creatures and provides rules on the damage you take from deep diving, as well as how you can suffer from the Bliss of the Deep or hallucinations. It acts as an introduction to different real world matters relating to a watery setting like currents, ecology, climates, temperate zones and other useful bits that can make any underwater game more real by having a great consistency with the real world in terms of fish farming, warm, and general underwater survival.

I wasn't too crazy about some of the races. The delphines, intelligent dolphins, and the sharken, intelligent sharks, gave me bad visions of Rifts Underseas. Other races include the merfolk, selkies and the Sel'varahn. The latter are similar to humans in many ways but are wholly aquatic and rely on magic to survive in the surface.

In terms of class, all of the core classes are discussed with information on which races are common among them, as well as what changes, if any, should be used. A new class, the Mariner, is introduced. There aren't humans off to sea, but warriors who defend the depths against the surface world, using close fighting in reefs to their advantage.

Prestige Classes include the coral shaper, a spellcaster who is able to influence coral, a vital part of underwater magic. They can abilities relating to shaping and controlling coral with reduced spellcasting while the coryphene master currents to augment their magic. Other prestige classes help fill out the ranks of warrior and explorers. Mystic Eye doesn't try to do it all. They know that several supplements have appeared before, and suggest some PrCs from other d20 products to flesh out this book. A wise move as it allows them to concentrate on this book instead of reinventing the wheel.

Being underwater introduces serious problems for using the Craft (Alchemy) skill. There is no fire or air. Underwater Alchemy is the solution, using different items and material to craft alchemical items. Other skills are customized for underwater use such as using the Heal skill to prevent a blood trail in the water to rules for the Survival skill.

To round off characters, new feats are included. Several of these focus on crafting living items to replace standard magic ones, or using the underwater Coral to its fullest. A new type of feat, Aquatic, is also introduced. This is for those races with the Aquatic descriptor and includes abilities like Electric, giving the character a electrical attack, to tail strike, giving the user an unarmed attack without the standard penalty of using an unarmed attack.

Now that you've got your mer folk mariner and his feats, you need some new weapons like the obsidian-edge rapier or the coral club. Of course you'll need some new armor to keep yourself from being eaten by a rogue sharken and it's jawblades. This means donning your plated shell armor.

The chapter, Movement and Combat Underwater contains all of the rules needed to battle in the depths. The important things to note are buoyancy, either positive or negative, effected by your encumberance, as well as movement in the water, on the surface or as you exit. After all, it'd be embarrassing to kill the kraken and then get knocked to the beach shore by an errant wave.

You've got your arms and armor and need an enemy. Aquatic Creatures provides a master list of creatures by CR. The list includes size, type, depth, range, and temperature. This keep encounters realistic and saves the GM a headache. I'm not the stat cruncher others are, but some of the monster stats seem off. Take the Giant Crab or Dire Lamprey. No feats on either of them. Others have the same problem. Illustrations are also lacking in this section, making it one of the weaker sections in the book visually.

One thing that this section doesn't do well is presents racial traits for players interested in using these new creatures. Only one, the Otterkin have full statistics. Others which sound more interesting, and will probably see a lot of use by GMs, aren't listed fully, unusually only using the favored class. Somewhat understandable in a tome this size. Read aloud descriptions, a somewhat common thing in monster write ups are also missing, as are round by round tactics.

Now as the setting is underwater, there are changes in the magic system. These range from specific spell alterations to effects on energy types. Those wondering what the Coral Magic I spoke of earlier is, can read about it here. Coral reefs have an innate intelligence and can be used to store magic. They can also send out worms to hosts and the experiences of those worms enrich the reef even more. Wizards can scribe spells directly into coral reefs but if they stray too far, lose some of the utility.

To go along with the new material, new spells are introduced. These spells aren't broken up by type and caster in alphabetical order, but rather, in straight alphabetical order. These range from the 4th level sorcerer spell boiling shield, a spell that protects you with superheated water, to the 9th level Sea-God's Embrace, a spell that allows air-breathers to function normally underwater for 1 hour/level. They have swim movement, ability to cast spells, water breathing, freedom of movement, immunity to pressure and surfacing effects as well as an early warning when the spell will fade. Still might be too high a level though.

The new magic items include the riptide whip, fashioned of kelp, to the splendid submersible, an underwater vehicle. Useful for rounding out the section on magic but not vastly detailed. In some ways, I'm surprised that no major artifacts of the different races were detailed with long histories.

Where do you put all of these rules? How about the Sea of Ishamark. See, it has a history with an age of ice, a meteor strike, and all sorts of other good stuff. There is a city with a dwindling adamantine supply that hosts steam gnomes. Is the city Bluffside you ask? No, it's Highscarp, but it might as well be Bluffside with its many surface similarities.

The different sections include details in terms of history, religion, place of interest, broken up into four different sections and a separate NPCs chapter to populate your setting. These sections include different bits of information like the Crater Bay Guard prestige class and numerous encounter charts.

For time pressed GMs, the Depths of Reason, a short adventure for four 6th level characters is included. Characters start in the city and are called upon to investigate the disappearance of numerous ships in the area. It's a good way to introduce the players surface characters to the challenges of the depths and showcase some of the rules in the book.

The book ends with ideas for further explorations, glossary, and index. All good tools for those interested in getting the most out of this book. For example, under further explorations, d20 sourcebooks that could easily tie into this one are noted including Broadsides!, Seafarer's Handbook and Seas of Blood, among others. One missing from the list would be Monsters of the Boundless Blue by Goodman Games to augment your underwater encounters.

The book uses standard two columns for text. The maps, which look great in full color on the interior covers, don't look quite as good in black and white. In addition, because half the book is devoted to locations, there should be more maps. How about some sample caves, grottos and even coral reefs? How about some undersea communities? The internal art is solid with some great pictures, but the book is so huge, you can often go pages without seeing a single illustration. The sidebars present a difference in that they are actually like a flipbook. Things move as you go through the book creating a pleasant visual experience.

The book is immense and has a limited appeal. If you're not interested in this type of campaign, it's use is greatly limited. While the mechanics for players can possibly see some use on land, some of the material is very specific. I will note that with its wide range of uses though, it would be the perfect supplement for an Oathbound game that took to the Deep or a game using Doomstriders to explore the seas.

If your shorebound campaign has become dry and dull, a quick dip into the Deep will liven things up.
 

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An amazing underwater sourcebook for your d20 game. This 256 page hardback contains: · Dozens of new feats, items, prestige classes and spells · New magic systems based on coral and currents · Detailed underwater alchemy rules, including the new item creation method of Vent-Tempering · Underwater combat and spellcasting rules and tactics> · New creatures both fearsome and benign, including the majestic and powerful Ceti · New aquatic races—including non-humanoids such as Delphines and Sharken, and rules for playing these types of characters • And an all-new introductory adventure by Stefon Mears--*The Depths of Reason*--to get you started TAKE YOUR CAMPAIGN TO THE NEXT LEVEL BY DROPPING IT DOWN BELOW!
 

I am running an underwater game and I was very excited when I heard about the deep so I ran out and bought it when it first came out. Perhaps I expected too much from this product, but I have been sorely disappointed with it in general.

The main problems of this book are not evident by a casual scan of it. In fact, you can not even see them by reading the book cover to cover. The problems arise when you try to use it. It does very good at creating the illusion of being complete, but nearly every rule, and every mechanic, is missing vital pieces.
Take depth sensitivity for example, its a mechanic that gives rules for creatures who are acclimated to the deeper deep, and take damage from low pressure. The rules refer to a table that describes it (and are useless without this table) and the table simply does not exist.
This is just one example, there are too many to even count. Tables with things like "sudden death from damage" which is never covered. Creatures statistics are promissed but never delivered. Races presented are missing important information like starting age and age progression. Spells, feats, skills, and so on really only touch on some of the problems, and if you look closely most of them are just copied out of the players handbook with certain words changed to make them aquatic.
At best, when you strip away the fluff (like an expanded armor speed table that defines redundancy) the deep is a rough outline that details a few ideas for an underwater game, and a few rule ideas that you could develope for your game. Good for a 10$ pdf perhaps, but a 40$ hardcover is a bit of a waste.

Ok, beyond the disappointing incompleteness of the book, I personally have some issues with it, that are perhaps more related to taste rather than just glaring filler and missing information. I will list them here:

1. A beautiful cover art marred by a crappy, off-center, photoshop rendering of the title. Also, i think the picture would look better if the mermaid was not outlined in purple.

2. The outrageous price is in a big bold font right on the binding of the book, so it can mock you from the bookshelf, and tell all your friends how much you spent.

3. Buoyancy rules that ignore physics. Once again, 100 lbs of styrofoam will make you sink like a rock. Ok people: weight is NOT density. 100000 lbs of styrofoam will float, 1 millionth of an ounce of lead will still sink. Lets try to make a buoyancy mechanic that makes sense? Oh, and I might want to add that a 100 lbs lead ball and a 1 lb styrofoam ball (without wind/air resistence) fall at the same rate. Same kinda thing with sinking and floating (in their rules, the heavier the thing is, the faster it sinks...and thats not how it works in real life...not even close!)

4. Jellypods and coral magic is over-the-top for me. Why cant creatures of the deep develop denser than water potions in glass containers? Or paper that works underwater? I mean they are interesting ideas, but seem a little extreme and alien when most of these races live less than a 100 feet from the surface.

5. How do delphins and sharken put on their items?

6.Flip book margins are nice, but take up too much space, and weren't that great of art. Seems like a waste of effort.

7. The art was great in some places, weak and "kindergartenesque" in others, and totally missing in places where it was really needed.

8. Organization: stuff is everywhere. Tables are all over the book, with no table index. Rules are scattered everywhere.

9. Web support/errata: Web enhancements were promised as "coming soon" in october...but no sign of them yet. An errata is desperately needed to make this book some semblance of whole. Support fo this product is virtually nill. In MEG public forums, while they have a section for nearly all of their books, the Deep was denied its own section. Questions posted about the Deep presented on their forum seem to be quietly swept under the carpet. Basically it looks like MEG themselves wants to let this product fall into the depths of the sea and forget it exists.


Good stuff:

1. It has some good art and the cover art is good except for the aweful cover treatment. I feel sorry the cover artist whose work was mangled.

2. It has some neat ideas (too bad they weren't fully developed).

3. Hardcover. I like hardcovers.

In conclusion, this book would have made a good first draft or outline of an excellent book. Either much needed information was edited out or the book was sent to the shelves incomplete. It seems to have been pushed from "proposal" to final product in too short of time as it lacks evidence of playtesting and playability and shows evidence of hasty production like second-rate cover treatment, loads of missing, misleading, or incomplete information, and organization akin to tossing pages in the air, gathering them up and stappling them in random order (ok, not quite that bad, but it did make me wonder a few times). In essence, I find the book a waste of money and space; too specialized for a land-based game, too vague for an underwater based game, and lacking in vital details and realism for a short encounter. If you collect d20 books for the sake of owning them, then maybe this book is for you.


Well, thats my review.
-Jessica
 

I am running an underwater game and I was very excited when I heard about the deep so I ran out and bought it when it first came out. Perhaps I expected too much, but I have been sorely disappointed.

The main problems of this book are not evident by a casual scan of the it. In fact, you can not even see them by reading the book cover to cover. The problems arise when you try to use it. It does very good at creating the illusion of being complete, but nearly every rule, and every mechanic, is missing vital pieces. Take depth sensitivity for example, its a mechanic that gives rules for creatures who are acclimated to the deeper deep, and take damage from low pressure. The rules refer to a table that describes it (and are useless without this table) and the table simple does not exist.
This is just one example, there are too many to even count. Tables with things like "sudden death from damage" which is never covered. Creatures statistics are promissed but never delivered. Races presented are missing important information like starting age and age progression. Spells, feats, skills, and so on really only touch on some of the problems, and if you look closely most of them are just copied out of the players handbook with certain words changed to make them aquatic.
At best, when you strip away the fluff (like an expanded armor speed table that defines redundancy) the deep is a rough outline that details a few ideas for an underwater game, and a few rule ideas that you could develope for your game. Good for a 10$ pdf perhaps, but a 40$ hardcover is a bit of a waste.

Ok, beyond the disappointing incompleteness of the book, I personally have some issues with it, that are perhaps more related to taste rather than just glaring filler and missing information. I will list them here:

1. A beautiful cover art marred by a crappy, off-center, photoshop rendering of the title. Also, i think the picture would look better if the mermaid was not outlined in purple.

2. The outrageous price is in a big bold font right on the binding of the book, so it can mock you from the bookshelf, and tell all your friends how much you spent.

3. Buoyancy rules that ignore physics. Once again, 100 lbs of styrofoam will make you sink like a rock. Ok people: weight is NOT density. 100000 lbs of styrofoam will float, 1 millionth of an ounce of lead will still sink. Lets try to make a buoyancy mechanic that makes sense? Oh, and I might want to add that a 100 lbs lead ball and a 1 lb styrofoam ball (without wind/air resistence) fall at the same rate. Same kinda thing with sinking and floating.

4. Jellypods and coral magic is over-the-top for me. Why cant creatures of the deep develop denser than water potions in glass containers? Or paper that works underwater? I mean they are interesting ideas, but seem a little extreme and alien when most of these races live less than a 100 feet from the surface.

5. How do delphins and sharken put on their items?

6.Flip book margins are nice, but take up too much space, and weren't that great of art. Seems like a waste of effort.

7. The art was great in some places, weak and "kindergartenesque" in others, and totally missing in places where it was really needed.

8. Organization: stuff is everywhere. Tables are all of the book, with no index. Rules are scattered everywhere.

Well, thats my review.
-Jessica
 

You bring up more detailed points that I did when talking about game statistics that seem off and have used the book more than I currently have. I'm pretty bad with tables until I actually need them at which point I'm like WTF?

Any chance of putting up a seperate review so that others can get more opinions of the book?
 

Sure, I will do that right away. I totally agree about tables and the "fine print" of the rules, the "WTF?" factor of this book is unreasonably high. I had more than a few gaming sessions slowed down by searching for stuff that just wasn't there in this book, when the book itself refers to it (and in some cases gives bogus table numbers).
 

I have to say I agree with eveything this author says about this book, which is a shame because I like most of the stuff put out by Mysitc Eye.

Also, I know delphins move stuff with their special sonar, so this can be the way they put on their armor. But, I beleive delphin & Sharken shouldn't even be character races. They don't have apendages. It's just a dolphin.... can you see a dolphin or a shark for that matter being a theif, a fighter, or any other class.
 

Hi all!

I totally agree with this review. There are plenty of excellent ideas in this book, but the sloppy development of them totally undercuts thier utility in actual play. The problems are pervasive, from organization to mechanical design to stylistic presentation. This book is an intense disappointment.

And at the cost of $40, it's a shameful product. I normally don't factor price into my appraisals of rpg books, but, for FORTY dollars, I expect competant design, at the very least. As a $20 softback, I'd have still been annoyed at the poor quality of this book, giving it a 2 out of 5. As a $40 hardcover, it's value is way too marginal.

Jessica, thanks for giving such an honest and informed review.

---Olivia
 

Thanks for the review Jessica.

Unfortunately, this product is already one the way (admittedly, I won it in a contest).

I hope that these problems can be addressed by errata. It looks like many of them can (missing tables for instance).
 

I just wanted to stop by and say we are working on getting out the web enhancements and some errata, we are taking our time so we do not make the same mistakes twice.

We are also slowing down our process of proofreading after layout to help resolve any future issues for future books.

As a rule of thumb we do not comment on reviews but I did want to state we are listening.

Hal

MEG
 

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