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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7145911" data-attributes="member: 12731">Not sure what you mean.If what you're saying is "ranged was good in 3E too" I don't disagree. What I'm specifically pointing my finger at is how WotC for some reason thought it was a good idea to remove ALL of the following restrictions on the basic idea of picking up a bow and starting to shoot:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">ranged fire requires a different ability than melee</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">ranged fire does less damage (no ability modifier to damage)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">penalty to shoot into melee (target is in melee)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">penalty to shoot from melee (archer is in melee) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">you can't move into position, shoot, then retreat out of sight - you're either stuck out in the open before or after your shot</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">no "power attack" with ranged weapons</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">no dual-wielding with ranged weapons</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">archers gain penalties for cover</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">archers gain penalties for range</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">you can't stack a magic bow with magic ammunition</li> </ol>I've probably forgotten one or two, but these are the ten I could come up with from the top of my head.Removing some of these in the name of more streamlined gameplay I could accept. Removing one or two of the most frustrating ones for archer lovers I can understand too.But removing ALL of them?!?!?I mean, the main advantage of range is still there:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shooting at range means the monster can't claw your eyes out, because his arms can't reach you.</li> </ul>Yet, removing ALL of these is what WotC decided to do.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">you can now use Dexterity for both your melee and ranged needs</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">you get to add Dexterity to ranged attack damage</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">no penalty to shoot into melee (even if you rule creatures can take cover behind your allies, this benefit is negated by the +2 from Archery Style)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">the penalty to shoot from melee can be completely negated (Crossbow Archer Feat) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">you're free to move both before and after your attacks, which is MUCH more useful for ranged fire than melee. Archers can stay completely out of line of effect except to readied attacks. Melee fighters rarely have such cover within their movement, and besides, it would provoke OAs</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Just as there's GWM for melee, there's SS for ranged</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">for all practical purposes, Crossbow Expert grants you the same benefits as two-weapon fighting PLUS the TWF fighting style PLUS the Dual Wielder feat</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The SS feat negate penalties for cover</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The SS feat negate penalties for range</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">you CAN stack a magic bow with magic ammunition</li> </ol>Without feats, the archer is at least vulnerable to getting caught in melee combat. But many of the essential checks on ranged combat are still gone. With feats, however... Oh man what a clusterfrack. This edition effectively turns the SS CE hand crossbow wielder into the minmaxer munchkin's wet dream of a dream pixie magical fighter with twin 120 ft reach shortswords. Did I mention they removed ALL TEN of the checks and balances on 3rd Edition ranged combat...?</blockquote>

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