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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7146598" data-attributes="member: 996">It is a tad ironic how uptight we can get over one fighter build edging out another by, what was it, 4 hps of damage, or one weapon edging out another by a half-point of average damage, when D&amp;D has much more profound imbalances going on.&nbsp; I guess it's just easy to measure.&nbsp;And if we get to that point, and don't go too far beyond it, we're fine, really.&nbsp; Here's a balance issue, can we get past the reflexive denial to talk about ways of dealing with?&nbsp; Can we now just go and apply whichever of those ways appeals, rather than campaigning to get WotC to force it on everyone like some sort of fanatical activists?&nbsp; Seems like most threads never fight their way through the denial, or else they devolve into OneTrueWayism... or both, without ever hammering out any useful ideas.&nbsp; Sometimes both, while generating a few good ideas that get lost in the morass. &nbsp;That's a logical, but pretty low bar.&nbsp;&nbsp; I prefer as many options as possible be 'viable' which is probably less cut-and-dried, and 'meaningful' which can be a tad subjective (meaningful to /someone/, somewhere, would be fine, really).&nbsp;It's certainly not to the point that melee is untenable.&nbsp; Ranged may edge out melee by the numbers, and be more flexible due to so many risks and restrictions having been removed, and the few remaining ones being removable with an (optional!) feat or two - but it's really as nothing compared to melee vs casting (nor ranged vs casting, for that matter).&nbsp;Style is a choice in itself.&nbsp; Choosing any style gives up the others.&nbsp; If melee types got to choose two styles and ranged types only one, then you'd be giving something up...&nbsp;In theory, a fighter's supposed to be able to throw his feats to non-combat pursuits without being unacceptably bad at combat, and, if you do have the right ranged feats, you can just keep shooting in melee, anyway...&nbsp;STR and DEX are prettymuch even, there.&nbsp; A couple of killer feats, a 20, costs you the same and takes as long to mature, whether it's 20 DEX and SS/X-bow or 20 STR GWM/PAM.&nbsp;Except where they're unaccountably lethal, sure.&nbsp; ;P&nbsp; &nbsp;You could say the same for balance:&nbsp; Balance in 5e isn't found in the mechanics.&nbsp; It's found in what you do with them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7146598, member: 996"] It is a tad ironic how uptight we can get over one fighter build edging out another by, what was it, 4 hps of damage, or one weapon edging out another by a half-point of average damage, when D&D has much more profound imbalances going on. I guess it's just easy to measure. And if we get to that point, and don't go too far beyond it, we're fine, really. Here's a balance issue, can we get past the reflexive denial to talk about ways of dealing with? Can we now just go and apply whichever of those ways appeals, rather than campaigning to get WotC to force it on everyone like some sort of fanatical activists? Seems like most threads never fight their way through the denial, or else they devolve into OneTrueWayism... or both, without ever hammering out any useful ideas. Sometimes both, while generating a few good ideas that get lost in the morass. That's a logical, but pretty low bar. I prefer as many options as possible be 'viable' which is probably less cut-and-dried, and 'meaningful' which can be a tad subjective (meaningful to /someone/, somewhere, would be fine, really). It's certainly not to the point that melee is untenable. Ranged may edge out melee by the numbers, and be more flexible due to so many risks and restrictions having been removed, and the few remaining ones being removable with an (optional!) feat or two - but it's really as nothing compared to melee vs casting (nor ranged vs casting, for that matter). Style is a choice in itself. Choosing any style gives up the others. If melee types got to choose two styles and ranged types only one, then you'd be giving something up... In theory, a fighter's supposed to be able to throw his feats to non-combat pursuits without being unacceptably bad at combat, and, if you do have the right ranged feats, you can just keep shooting in melee, anyway... STR and DEX are prettymuch even, there. A couple of killer feats, a 20, costs you the same and takes as long to mature, whether it's 20 DEX and SS/X-bow or 20 STR GWM/PAM. Except where they're unaccountably lethal, sure. ;P You could say the same for balance: Balance in 5e isn't found in the mechanics. It's found in what you do with them. [/QUOTE]

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