Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7161247" data-attributes="member: 16814">No, because then the problem wouldn't be apparent -- it's only when the ranged guys are next to the melee guys that the difference is apparent.No, it's not useless.&nbsp; Like all models, it's wrong, but it can be very useful.&nbsp; I can say from experience that the damage output difference is noticeable in game, by the players.&nbsp; But then, I also have a noticeable difference between my greataxe wielding barbarian vs my sword and board paladin players -- the sword and board with 20 STR and duelist routinely deals far more damage than the 14 STR barbarian.&nbsp; That +3 to hit is huge, but the average damage on the longsword is higher than the average damage on the raging greataxe (+8 vs +5 (both magic) with the difference in die averages being less than 3).&nbsp;&nbsp; The effect in game seems larger even than the DPR whiteboard, but that's because it cuts against expectation -- that even a stronger person with a longsword can out-damage a raging barbarian with a greataxe.&nbsp; So DPR, while not perfect, is useful.How, exactly, do you image this works out?&nbsp; Hide behind a tree at range?&nbsp; Great, no one can attack you -- push between melee and ranged.&nbsp; Take cover?&nbsp; Ranged guy can attack without penalty (assuming SS), melee guy still can't -- ranged win.&nbsp; Cliffs I'm not sure about how that's supposed to work for anyone.&nbsp; Ropers screw everyone, but the ranged guys are in the same boat at the melee guys, and 10' a round isn't exactly going to ruin their day.&nbsp; How did you think those things leveled the field?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7161247, member: 16814"] No, because then the problem wouldn't be apparent -- it's only when the ranged guys are next to the melee guys that the difference is apparent. No, it's not useless. Like all models, it's wrong, but it can be very useful. I can say from experience that the damage output difference is noticeable in game, by the players. But then, I also have a noticeable difference between my greataxe wielding barbarian vs my sword and board paladin players -- the sword and board with 20 STR and duelist routinely deals far more damage than the 14 STR barbarian. That +3 to hit is huge, but the average damage on the longsword is higher than the average damage on the raging greataxe (+8 vs +5 (both magic) with the difference in die averages being less than 3). The effect in game seems larger even than the DPR whiteboard, but that's because it cuts against expectation -- that even a stronger person with a longsword can out-damage a raging barbarian with a greataxe. So DPR, while not perfect, is useful. How, exactly, do you image this works out? Hide behind a tree at range? Great, no one can attack you -- push between melee and ranged. Take cover? Ranged guy can attack without penalty (assuming SS), melee guy still can't -- ranged win. Cliffs I'm not sure about how that's supposed to work for anyone. Ropers screw everyone, but the ranged guys are in the same boat at the melee guys, and 10' a round isn't exactly going to ruin their day. How did you think those things leveled the field? [/QUOTE]

Verification