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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5264035" data-attributes="member: 42582">NoWayJose, thanks for the reply, and I'm glad you like the examples.Not quite. I was referring to its signficance for the players.I started another thread related to this a while ago - not long after The Plane Above came out - about the "Gloranthification of D&D". In Planescape, it's not just that the belief conceit doesn't itself incorporate the PCs. Rather, there's no expectation that the players are meant to respond to it or make use of it in playing the game. Whereas in The Plane Above, and its discussion of changing "mythic history", or in The Underdark and it's discussion of the relationship between Lolth and Tharizdun, it's pretty clear that this is not just about the PCs doing something, but about the players making choices like "Is it OK to kill Lolth, if this creates a risk of Tharizdun breaking free?" or "Should I go back in time and stop Bane killing Tuern in order to help me end this present-day tyranny, even though this runs the risk of having the gods lose the Dawn War?"Without wanting to lapse too much back into caricature, I'd say that if you look at the second of these questions - going back into mythic history to kill Bane in the cause of liberation - and the most pressing issues that occur to you involves time-travel paradoxes - then you've got the sort of attitude towards the gameworld that I (and I think Doug and Mallus) are trying to move away from.</blockquote>

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