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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JeffB" data-source="post: 7714488" data-attributes="member: 518">It is hard to cater to casual players and hardcore players at the same time.My players are casual. I started the group about 7 years ago when they were all 11-12 yo (my son and friends).. They are now young adults.  Even after all that time, they don't get into the books or rules minutiae. They don't get into backstories, or planning out mechanical crunch paths for their characters. They don't read thr books outside the table, and buy nothing. They treat rpgs like they do playing Monopoly, or Clue, etc. They have fun for a few hours and then off to whatever else is going on in their lives. Rules, complicated systems are an abomination to them. Ive gone that route with various systems and it always is backlash.. So I keep it simple and light for them. Otherwise they would rather play a videogame or watch a movie.You cannot make any money on them. Yet they love playing and even after 7 years, we are still playing once or twice a month. Had a session yesterday. So how do you market to them? You rely on GMs and making their (my!) life easy. Complicated systems and limited gaming/prep time do not mix.The people who live, eat and breathe gaming are a completely different kettle of fish, and are the ones who make you money... they crave more more more. It's a tough balancing act for a manufacturer, and how do you ensure longevity with what direction you go in? As a player and consumer, it's a completely different set of needs and wants.This is the big issue with competing luxuries and decrease in free-time , compared to a few decades ago. At any rate, I think there are fewer diminishing returns with simplified systems and leaner business models. WOTC's success with 5e seems to be a good indicator- They are in much better shape with 5e than 3.0/3.5 at it's height with it's complicated rules and vomitous flow of official books which eventually drove consumers off to become their competition, or to other systems. 4e also failing to be a success because of WOTC being unable to figure out the  core D&D audience and how to engage lapsed and potential players (and fwiw- that is not a bash on 4e. I am a fan of it much moreso than 3rd or 5th editions).</blockquote>

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