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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7716092" data-attributes="member: 22779">OTOH, it also causes friction when the GM and the player have differing ideas of what those odds should be.&nbsp; The DM gives you X chance of success and you think that X is unreasonable, you get friction at the table.&nbsp; Again, it comes down to simply differing ideas about what's going on in the game.And, again, the more often that the GM has to step in and make that determination, the greater the odds that there will be a misalignment of expectations.Of course, all this rolls back around to the idea of simple vs complex RPG's.&nbsp; In a simple RPG, the DM steps in and says you have X chance to jump Y distance.&nbsp; Well, that's now pretty much a rule of the game.&nbsp; He shouldn't be changing those odds for the next guy, unless there are pretty good circumstances for doing so.&nbsp; If both characters are more or less similar (a fighter in chain mail and a cleric in chain mail, both with similar Strength scores) then the odds should be either very close or the same.&nbsp; Thus, now you have a rule.&nbsp; Play long enough and you wind up having precedence set rules for that table for most things.&nbsp; IOW, over a long enough span of time, that simple RPG will become a complex RPG, simply through accretion of table rulings.&nbsp; Think about how people talked about the changes from 2e to 3e.&nbsp; How many people mentioned their binder thick set of table rules?&nbsp; It was hardly rare.&nbsp; And, also not rare was the breath of fresh air that people talked about when they talked about 3e and how their 3 inch binder of house rules became a 3x5 index card.&nbsp; Of course, now you have a 3 inch set of rule books to plow through for answers, but, the end result is pretty much the same.&nbsp; The big difference though is standardization between groups.&nbsp; It became a lot easier for people to talk about the game mechanics simply because so many people were coming from the same baseline.That is much more difficult if everyone is singing from a different hymn book.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7716092, member: 22779"] OTOH, it also causes friction when the GM and the player have differing ideas of what those odds should be. The DM gives you X chance of success and you think that X is unreasonable, you get friction at the table. Again, it comes down to simply differing ideas about what's going on in the game. And, again, the more often that the GM has to step in and make that determination, the greater the odds that there will be a misalignment of expectations. Of course, all this rolls back around to the idea of simple vs complex RPG's. In a simple RPG, the DM steps in and says you have X chance to jump Y distance. Well, that's now pretty much a rule of the game. He shouldn't be changing those odds for the next guy, unless there are pretty good circumstances for doing so. If both characters are more or less similar (a fighter in chain mail and a cleric in chain mail, both with similar Strength scores) then the odds should be either very close or the same. Thus, now you have a rule. Play long enough and you wind up having precedence set rules for that table for most things. IOW, over a long enough span of time, that simple RPG will become a complex RPG, simply through accretion of table rulings. Think about how people talked about the changes from 2e to 3e. How many people mentioned their binder thick set of table rules? It was hardly rare. And, also not rare was the breath of fresh air that people talked about when they talked about 3e and how their 3 inch binder of house rules became a 3x5 index card. Of course, now you have a 3 inch set of rule books to plow through for answers, but, the end result is pretty much the same. The big difference though is standardization between groups. It became a lot easier for people to talk about the game mechanics simply because so many people were coming from the same baseline. That is much more difficult if everyone is singing from a different hymn book. [/QUOTE]

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