Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The diminishing effectiveness of armour across the editions
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8037216" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>It's just struck me how much less effective armour and especially plate armour has got since WotC bought out TSR.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In AD&D field plate is AC2 (and full plate is AC1). A basic orc has a THAC0 of 19 and so needs a 17 to hit field plate, doing 1d8 damage per attack vs a rolled 1d10 hp for a fighter.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In 3.0/3.5 plate armour is AC+8 for AC 18. A basic orc is listed as having a +4 to attack, needing 14s, and doing 2d4+4 damage vs 10+con hp.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In 4e with the extra starting hp and orcs being slightly higher level the situation isn't comparable. But plate armour is still pretty useless; AC 18 and a first level monster is at +6 to hit.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In 5e our plate armour is still AC 18 (and with no dex possible) but our orc is now +5 to hit, needing 13s, doing 1d12+3 damage vs 10+con hp.</li> </ul><p>In AD&D and 3.X you could get some dex bonus to add to this. In 4e and 5e you can't. AD&D shields were +1 and WotC shields +2. Despite being comparatively rarely used together except with lances you want a shield with plate.</p><p></p><p>The situation is even more interesting with the humble kobold and its damage.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The AD&D kobold has a THAC0 of 20 (one worse than the orc) and does 1-4 or 1-6 damage depending on weapon. A hail of slingstones need a few lucky hits to take down a fighter in plate and with a shield as they need 19s to hit.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3.X kobolds are +1 to hit (needing 19s on a shielded fighter) and do 1d6-1 damage with spears or +3 to hit and do 1d3-1 damage with slings. A fighter can tank both for quite a long time. The kobolds can hit with the slings of outrageous numbers, but the damage is puny.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4e kobolds again are non-comparable, especially as 4e separates the actual fighters from the miners (and makes kobold miners minions).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5e kobolds are +4 to hit at melee and range (needing 16s to hit our plate armour and shield fighter) and do 1d4+2 damage. That's gonna leave a mark, especially as they get advantage when mass-ganking someone. And it also means that whereas in both 3.5 and 5e you wanted to rush the shooters to force them into melee it won't do a lot here.</li> </ul><p>So why does WotC D&D have almost no respect for armour at all? I've two theories - the first is that a whiff-fest is boring and annoying, and the second is that it was a bug accidentally introduced in 3.0 when they moved monsters to effectively using PC rules. But I'm really not sure.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8037216, member: 87792"] It's just struck me how much less effective armour and especially plate armour has got since WotC bought out TSR. [LIST] [*]In AD&D field plate is AC2 (and full plate is AC1). A basic orc has a THAC0 of 19 and so needs a 17 to hit field plate, doing 1d8 damage per attack vs a rolled 1d10 hp for a fighter. [*]In 3.0/3.5 plate armour is AC+8 for AC 18. A basic orc is listed as having a +4 to attack, needing 14s, and doing 2d4+4 damage vs 10+con hp. [*]In 4e with the extra starting hp and orcs being slightly higher level the situation isn't comparable. But plate armour is still pretty useless; AC 18 and a first level monster is at +6 to hit. [*]In 5e our plate armour is still AC 18 (and with no dex possible) but our orc is now +5 to hit, needing 13s, doing 1d12+3 damage vs 10+con hp. [/LIST] In AD&D and 3.X you could get some dex bonus to add to this. In 4e and 5e you can't. AD&D shields were +1 and WotC shields +2. Despite being comparatively rarely used together except with lances you want a shield with plate. The situation is even more interesting with the humble kobold and its damage. [LIST] [*]The AD&D kobold has a THAC0 of 20 (one worse than the orc) and does 1-4 or 1-6 damage depending on weapon. A hail of slingstones need a few lucky hits to take down a fighter in plate and with a shield as they need 19s to hit. [*]3.X kobolds are +1 to hit (needing 19s on a shielded fighter) and do 1d6-1 damage with spears or +3 to hit and do 1d3-1 damage with slings. A fighter can tank both for quite a long time. The kobolds can hit with the slings of outrageous numbers, but the damage is puny. [*]4e kobolds again are non-comparable, especially as 4e separates the actual fighters from the miners (and makes kobold miners minions). [*]5e kobolds are +4 to hit at melee and range (needing 16s to hit our plate armour and shield fighter) and do 1d4+2 damage. That's gonna leave a mark, especially as they get advantage when mass-ganking someone. And it also means that whereas in both 3.5 and 5e you wanted to rush the shooters to force them into melee it won't do a lot here. [/LIST] So why does WotC D&D have almost no respect for armour at all? I've two theories - the first is that a whiff-fest is boring and annoying, and the second is that it was a bug accidentally introduced in 3.0 when they moved monsters to effectively using PC rules. But I'm really not sure. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The diminishing effectiveness of armour across the editions
Top