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<blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 8851759" data-attributes="member: 6799660">Most of my groups are mostly played-for-decades types, most of whom can switch-hit between playing and DMing. 5e has not done the DM training part well, but I also think it's a bit unfair to it to compare it to 1985-and-before D&amp;D. AD&amp;D and the boxed sets did a very good job at teaching people how to become dungeon-crawl DMs (and to a lessor degree wilderness hexcrawl DMs). Obviously everyone didn't exclusively game dungeoncrawls and hexcrawls, but that's what the system taught well, and if you were ready to try something else, well then you'd best trust your DMing skills (or have players dedicated enough to stick with you through the rough patches while you hone your skills beyond those parameters).&nbsp; 5e is trying to capture a wider base, including people whom have no interest in that (and there were plenty of people I grew up with who ought to have been naturals for D&amp;D, who bounced off it or tried it for a while and wandered off, specifically because of what it focused on). Teaching how to GM that wider set of play is challenging. AD&amp;D 2E (post <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/chekhovs-gun-and-the-hickman-revolution-what-type-of-campaign-do-you-run.693701/" target="_blank">Hickman Revolution</a>) had much the same problem, and much of the DM advice was very nebulous 'you decide what you want to do' style (as are lots of more open-goal non-D&amp;D rpgs). I don't envy the developers this challenge (while at the same time really hope the 2024 DMG-analog really ups the game).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Willie the Duck, post: 8851759, member: 6799660"] Most of my groups are mostly played-for-decades types, most of whom can switch-hit between playing and DMing. 5e has not done the DM training part well, but I also think it's a bit unfair to it to compare it to 1985-and-before D&D. AD&D and the boxed sets did a very good job at teaching people how to become dungeon-crawl DMs (and to a lessor degree wilderness hexcrawl DMs). Obviously everyone didn't exclusively game dungeoncrawls and hexcrawls, but that's what the system taught well, and if you were ready to try something else, well then you'd best trust your DMing skills (or have players dedicated enough to stick with you through the rough patches while you hone your skills beyond those parameters). 5e is trying to capture a wider base, including people whom have no interest in that (and there were plenty of people I grew up with who ought to have been naturals for D&D, who bounced off it or tried it for a while and wandered off, specifically because of what it focused on). Teaching how to GM that wider set of play is challenging. AD&D 2E (post [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/chekhovs-gun-and-the-hickman-revolution-what-type-of-campaign-do-you-run.693701/']Hickman Revolution[/URL]) had much the same problem, and much of the DM advice was very nebulous 'you decide what you want to do' style (as are lots of more open-goal non-D&D rpgs). I don't envy the developers this challenge (while at the same time really hope the 2024 DMG-analog really ups the game). [/QUOTE]

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