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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8852849" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>It's the second easiest WotC version of the game, that's for sure.</p><p></p><p>I skipped 3X so I'll take your word for it. 4E was dead simple to run. The DMGs were amazing. Still worth picking up for the advice and tips and pointers. Print out the monster. When it's that monster's turn, do the biggest thing they could that was available. You didn't need understand much, that was mostly on the players' side. PCs working together was the design intent, if the PC's did not, bad things happened.</p><p></p><p>It's absolutely a personal preference.</p><p></p><p>That's not true. Unless you define "less casual" as being DMs. A lot of people in the OSR are the same age as the bulk of the new-to-5E players. They just gravitated to the older, deadlier, and more challenging versions of the game. Entire OSR groups and discords are filled with people with less than 5-years experience with RPGs. Not all the old timers are in the OSR. There is a significant overlap in the Venn diagram, but they're not one perfectly overlapping circle.</p><p></p><p>From being told by a few hundred 5E players that is exactly what they expected.</p><p></p><p>You skipped the important word "almost" in that sentence. And I got the idea from running and playing 5E since the Next play test. The PCs are absolutely dirty with healing even from 1st level. The only way a PC dies is if the referee drops infinite dragons on them or the players simply let their friend's character die. After 5th level and you have access to raise dead, it's literally only a question of if the players will let the character stay dead.</p><p></p><p>Wow. That's either the easiest AD&D game ever or the hardest 5E game ever.</p><p></p><p>And that works...up until 5th level. Then it's a speed bump at worst.</p><p></p><p>If we're talking about old-school players and the OSR crowd, then I'd agree with you. If we're talking about the 5E crowd, then I'd disagree with you.</p><p></p><p>I've never seen it until 5E. I've played AD&D with people who would literally throw the video game controller against the wall across the room when they lose and even they gleefully tossed AD&D characters into the meatgrinder.</p><p></p><p>Yes. And when there's less rules for those characters there's less chance for misunderstanding. More rules means more misunderstandings.</p><p></p><p>It's not just the rules but the players' expectations and play style. But if you don't see how AD&D is more deadly than 5E, our points-of-view are so wildly divergent that there's essentially no common ground.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8852849, member: 86653"] It's the second easiest WotC version of the game, that's for sure. I skipped 3X so I'll take your word for it. 4E was dead simple to run. The DMGs were amazing. Still worth picking up for the advice and tips and pointers. Print out the monster. When it's that monster's turn, do the biggest thing they could that was available. You didn't need understand much, that was mostly on the players' side. PCs working together was the design intent, if the PC's did not, bad things happened. It's absolutely a personal preference. That's not true. Unless you define "less casual" as being DMs. A lot of people in the OSR are the same age as the bulk of the new-to-5E players. They just gravitated to the older, deadlier, and more challenging versions of the game. Entire OSR groups and discords are filled with people with less than 5-years experience with RPGs. Not all the old timers are in the OSR. There is a significant overlap in the Venn diagram, but they're not one perfectly overlapping circle. From being told by a few hundred 5E players that is exactly what they expected. You skipped the important word "almost" in that sentence. And I got the idea from running and playing 5E since the Next play test. The PCs are absolutely dirty with healing even from 1st level. The only way a PC dies is if the referee drops infinite dragons on them or the players simply let their friend's character die. After 5th level and you have access to raise dead, it's literally only a question of if the players will let the character stay dead. Wow. That's either the easiest AD&D game ever or the hardest 5E game ever. And that works...up until 5th level. Then it's a speed bump at worst. If we're talking about old-school players and the OSR crowd, then I'd agree with you. If we're talking about the 5E crowd, then I'd disagree with you. I've never seen it until 5E. I've played AD&D with people who would literally throw the video game controller against the wall across the room when they lose and even they gleefully tossed AD&D characters into the meatgrinder. Yes. And when there's less rules for those characters there's less chance for misunderstanding. More rules means more misunderstandings. It's not just the rules but the players' expectations and play style. But if you don't see how AD&D is more deadly than 5E, our points-of-view are so wildly divergent that there's essentially no common ground. [/QUOTE]
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