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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8857167" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>No. That Gygax's <em>prose</em> was so terrible that people didn't want to wade through that to try to understand the rules underneath it. The rules were, generally, fairly simple. Is the thief hidden? Make a % roll vs whatever is says on that chart. One chart that takes up about 1/3 of a page and a short paragraph description. Same thing in 5E? Rogue's DEX mod + prof bonus + (expertise?) + a d20 roll vs possible observer's WIS mod + prof bonus + (expertise?) + 10 or a d20 roll. About a dozen pages of rules, people still can't manage to get it right, and there's still arguments about how it's supposed to work.</p><p></p><p>Yes, because it's simpler.</p><p></p><p>Am I the only one who remembers that basically no one ever bothered using those? Well, the list goes on.</p><p></p><p>It literally did. The prose was such a nightmare no one bothered reading it so you could just get on with playing the game. Which made things infinitely easier to run. Now you have to memorize the entire game and run it perfectly or someone will call you out.</p><p></p><p>Yes, exactly. Which is infinitely easier than getting 1000 pages of rules exactly right all the time.</p><p></p><p>My experience is exactly the opposite. We didn't have any rules lawyers to deal with until 5E. And now they're literally everywhere.</p><p></p><p>You're lucky. In my experience 5E players will argue until they're blue in the face about literally everything that isn't perfectly according to the letter of the rules. And if you read a rule differently than they do, they rage quit. The whole rulings not rules seems to have utterly missed them.</p><p></p><p>More rules, more rules lawyers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8857167, member: 86653"] No. That Gygax's [I]prose[/I] was so terrible that people didn't want to wade through that to try to understand the rules underneath it. The rules were, generally, fairly simple. Is the thief hidden? Make a % roll vs whatever is says on that chart. One chart that takes up about 1/3 of a page and a short paragraph description. Same thing in 5E? Rogue's DEX mod + prof bonus + (expertise?) + a d20 roll vs possible observer's WIS mod + prof bonus + (expertise?) + 10 or a d20 roll. About a dozen pages of rules, people still can't manage to get it right, and there's still arguments about how it's supposed to work. Yes, because it's simpler. Am I the only one who remembers that basically no one ever bothered using those? Well, the list goes on. It literally did. The prose was such a nightmare no one bothered reading it so you could just get on with playing the game. Which made things infinitely easier to run. Now you have to memorize the entire game and run it perfectly or someone will call you out. Yes, exactly. Which is infinitely easier than getting 1000 pages of rules exactly right all the time. My experience is exactly the opposite. We didn't have any rules lawyers to deal with until 5E. And now they're literally everywhere. You're lucky. In my experience 5E players will argue until they're blue in the face about literally everything that isn't perfectly according to the letter of the rules. And if you read a rule differently than they do, they rage quit. The whole rulings not rules seems to have utterly missed them. More rules, more rules lawyers. [/QUOTE]
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