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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8857219" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>Right or not 5e's rulings not rules combined with excessive "ask your gm" with defaults almost always set wildly in favor of automatic success/victory certainly pushes the player expectations. Things are ok in tier1 & early tier2 but the shell game 5e plays with complexity to offload it from players to the GM creates a spike pit the GM is going to fall into as the players advance by leaps & bounds beyond the narrow band of levels that bounded accuracy is tuned for leaving them with expectation of immediate guarantee of success in all things while the GM is standing over a spiked pit armed with only pure & obvious fiat likely to trigger some form of adversarial play.</p><p></p><p>The players never have the wrong weapon because "It's magic" is the only tool provided. The players never have skills they didn't really invest in because all skills advance at the same rate or double that rate. The players never need to worry about danger because they've been making hp abilities & proficiency bonus gains for level after level since they outgrew Bounded accuracy. The players never need to worry about being undergeared because the entire system is tuned to the expectation that they are always only using starting equipment. The players don't need to worry about being at risk of getting killed because it's almost impossible for that to happen without the gm practically invoking "rocks fall" during the fight & blatantly taking all of the blame for executing someone's PC. The players know that dmg238 DC table only goes up to 30 so Bob's 12+5+d4+d20 so if bob doesn't succeed at a nearly impossible roll with any roll of 12 or better at worst & dc25 very hard with a 7 or better at worst (potentially an 8 or 3 at the lowest) that it's entirely because the gm decided to let them roll on a flatly impossible check where they never had a chance rather than because things combined to make a very hard/nearly impossible roll even more difficult</p><p></p><p>Take the "is the [rogue] hidden" in <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-dm-shortage.693711/post-8857167" target="_blank">post#443</a></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maybe... but is he <em>silent</em> too?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Did they invest in both equally instead of other skills?... maybe...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">or is one wayyy better than the other?... maybe</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Well Does that monster have good spot and/or listen?... maybe...</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Well does the fact that things are brightly lit add a -2 penalty to their hide check?... Maybe</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Well does the fact that they are in a huge echo-y room make it harder to be <em>silent</em>?... Maybe</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The rules don't say the rogue can, but can they do xyz?..Yes you be you unless the GM says no... Who cares?!... that's the GM's problem to cobble together from a selection of hurdles the rogue is almost guaranteed to clear trivially</li> </ul><p>Now it's one skill with expertise and no modifiers against a monster probably lacking the one skill needed to detect the rogue & probably not having enough at this level to have any realistic chance even if they happen to have it in their statblock. If it doesn't work the players know the gm is responsible not those monsters.</p><p></p><p>edit: [USER=1788]@DarkCrisis[/USER] it's not just ad&D <-->5e, that's 3.x</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8857219, member: 93670"] Right or not 5e's rulings not rules combined with excessive "ask your gm" with defaults almost always set wildly in favor of automatic success/victory certainly pushes the player expectations. Things are ok in tier1 & early tier2 but the shell game 5e plays with complexity to offload it from players to the GM creates a spike pit the GM is going to fall into as the players advance by leaps & bounds beyond the narrow band of levels that bounded accuracy is tuned for leaving them with expectation of immediate guarantee of success in all things while the GM is standing over a spiked pit armed with only pure & obvious fiat likely to trigger some form of adversarial play. The players never have the wrong weapon because "It's magic" is the only tool provided. The players never have skills they didn't really invest in because all skills advance at the same rate or double that rate. The players never need to worry about danger because they've been making hp abilities & proficiency bonus gains for level after level since they outgrew Bounded accuracy. The players never need to worry about being undergeared because the entire system is tuned to the expectation that they are always only using starting equipment. The players don't need to worry about being at risk of getting killed because it's almost impossible for that to happen without the gm practically invoking "rocks fall" during the fight & blatantly taking all of the blame for executing someone's PC. The players know that dmg238 DC table only goes up to 30 so Bob's 12+5+d4+d20 so if bob doesn't succeed at a nearly impossible roll with any roll of 12 or better at worst & dc25 very hard with a 7 or better at worst (potentially an 8 or 3 at the lowest) that it's entirely because the gm decided to let them roll on a flatly impossible check where they never had a chance rather than because things combined to make a very hard/nearly impossible roll even more difficult Take the "is the [rogue] hidden" in [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-dm-shortage.693711/post-8857167']post#443[/URL] [LIST] [*]Maybe... but is he [I]silent[/I] too? [*]Did they invest in both equally instead of other skills?... maybe... [LIST] [*]or is one wayyy better than the other?... maybe [/LIST] [*]Well Does that monster have good spot and/or listen?... maybe... [*]Well does the fact that things are brightly lit add a -2 penalty to their hide check?... Maybe [*]Well does the fact that they are in a huge echo-y room make it harder to be [I]silent[/I]?... Maybe [*]The rules don't say the rogue can, but can they do xyz?..Yes you be you unless the GM says no... Who cares?!... that's the GM's problem to cobble together from a selection of hurdles the rogue is almost guaranteed to clear trivially [/LIST] Now it's one skill with expertise and no modifiers against a monster probably lacking the one skill needed to detect the rogue & probably not having enough at this level to have any realistic chance even if they happen to have it in their statblock. If it doesn't work the players know the gm is responsible not those monsters. edit: [USER=1788]@DarkCrisis[/USER] it's not just ad&D <-->5e, that's 3.x [/QUOTE]
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