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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 5960088" data-attributes="member: 95493">Just got caught up so I apologize if some of my points have been covered. [MENTION=40098]WarlockLord[/MENTION] I just want to say a few minor things.First, "two sides" don't exist. WotC is trying to reach further back than 3.5 and 4e, and even if we just counted 3e and 4e we are looking at AT LEAST 5 different factions. (4e-essentials, 4e+essentials, 3e'rs, 3.5rs, PFers)Second, THIS is your breaking point where you think WotC is going to fail to achieve their goal? Bounded accuracy? HP was mine, and there are countless other threads disputing countless other issues and bounded accuracy is what broke your back. Ignore the new issues with the material and ideas coming out of the WotC blogs weekly.Third, (to me) it sounds like you are purposely trying to aggravate both sides (as you would see it). Both sides have issues certainly but you don't seem to be accurately portraying the true issues with either side. You aren't doing it for the 3e people who dislike 4e (nor the 4e who dislike 3e) OR what 4e hate about 4e and what 3e hate about 3e. So I don't know how that happens.Sure the 'fly invalidates climbing' argument has been made before but if that is the only issue then there are solutions. One I have imposed is that using fly is a concentration check, which can be easily disrupted or discontinued entirely by a number of factors, including landing <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. That means that the wizard CAN blow a spell slot to scale a wall, or they can work with the party to climb it.The real issue is one of BOUNDLESS power at higher levels, compared to lower levels. And that isn't really being discussed here at all. Instead we are talking about how different classes can destroy the wall, instead of climbing it. But if you need to be above it not beyond it then the blowing it up is actually counterproductive.Tovec out, peace people - "Play what you like"</blockquote>

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