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<blockquote data-quote="WarlockLord" data-source="post: 5960124" data-attributes="member: 40098">Let me try again.The wall is a metaphor for any challenge that would be a challenge at low level but is completely obviated by high levels.&nbsp; These include walls, doors, melee-only monsters, finding bad guys,etc.In 3e, you don't give a crap about walls, doors, melee-only monsters, and so on, because each of these challenges have abilities that come online to completely bypass them.&nbsp; Walls and doors shut up when you have overland flight and ethereal jaunt.&nbsp; Melee only monsters go away when you can fly.&nbsp; Finding Osama bin Laden's cave becomes substantially easier when scrying comes online.&nbsp; Etc.Meanwhile, the 4e paradigm is that no matter what level you are, there will always be a wall or a door or a melee monster or bin Laden's cave that will be an actual challenge you can fail at.&nbsp; Level 30 characters are supposed to struggle with the Wall of Texture Swapping, which has the exact same properties as the Cheap Wooden Wall but as a mysteriously higher DC.In other words, in 3e, there are entire types of challenges which, when you reach a certain level, simply aren't challenging any more.&nbsp; In 4e, you will never reach the point where you can tell an entire set of challenges to go away.And 5e seems to be embracing the 4e paradigm.&nbsp; See the Mearls quote.&nbsp; It doesn't matter how powerful of a psion you become, you are still making a strength check to get past that damn door.&nbsp;[MENTION=58416]Johnny3D3D[/MENTION], what is your position?&nbsp; I am genuinely curious.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WarlockLord, post: 5960124, member: 40098"] Let me try again. The wall is a metaphor for any challenge that would be a challenge at low level but is completely obviated by high levels. These include walls, doors, melee-only monsters, finding bad guys,etc. In 3e, you don't give a crap about walls, doors, melee-only monsters, and so on, because each of these challenges have abilities that come online to completely bypass them. Walls and doors shut up when you have overland flight and ethereal jaunt. Melee only monsters go away when you can fly. Finding Osama bin Laden's cave becomes substantially easier when scrying comes online. Etc. Meanwhile, the 4e paradigm is that no matter what level you are, there will always be a wall or a door or a melee monster or bin Laden's cave that will be an actual challenge you can fail at. Level 30 characters are supposed to struggle with the Wall of Texture Swapping, which has the exact same properties as the Cheap Wooden Wall but as a mysteriously higher DC. In other words, in 3e, there are entire types of challenges which, when you reach a certain level, simply aren't challenging any more. In 4e, you will never reach the point where you can tell an entire set of challenges to go away. And 5e seems to be embracing the 4e paradigm. See the Mearls quote. It doesn't matter how powerful of a psion you become, you are still making a strength check to get past that damn door. [MENTION=58416]Johnny3D3D[/MENTION], what is your position? I am genuinely curious. [/QUOTE]

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