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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SKyOdin" data-source="post: 5967822" data-attributes="member: 57939">Since when were there spellcasters in Middle Earth who used overt magical rituals? Even Gandalf does no such thing, ever. All of the magic he uses is either so subtle that it is near invisible, or a quick and immediate application of his power without much overt casting. Most of all, he simply applies his knowledge and wisdom. Outside of the great wizards, there are no clear "mages" at all in the world of Middle Earth. Lord of the Rings doesn't have spells.Okay, these paragraphs demonstrate where some of the disconnect comes from. Why the heck are you talking about Aragorn as if he needed to be multiclassed?! I understand that you are trying to make an analogy, but you are making so many presumptions that it is making my head spin. Ultimately, trying to apply D&D logic about classes and magic to anything non-D&D is just silly. Aragorn doesn't have a class. LotR was written decades before the idea of class was even invented.Furthermore, assuming that he would need to multiclass in order to have healing abilities means that you are already presupposing D&D assumptions about magic and class organization, rather than looking at what is actually going on.Similarly, saying that D&D heroes are not on par with demigods because the Deities and Demigods book says so is fairly circular, insular logic. You say that they are "heroes", but for most of human history, the terms "hero" and "demigod" were practically synonyms. To be honest, the Deities and Demigods' definitions of divinity, along with most traditional D&D definitions of such, are lousy. No construction of religion in D&D is remotely based on real world religion and beliefs, and most are rather stupid, even within the context of D&D itself.In most real world polytheistic beliefs, the divide between mortal and divine was awfully thin. The children of gods could be perfectly normal mortals, and exemplary humans could become gods. Too much of D&D religion overly conflates the polytheistic concept of gods with the monotheistic concept of God. In polytheistic terms, being a god isn't a big deal, since there are millions of them anyways, many of whom are vulnerable to being harmed or killed by mortals.I was mostly responding to your argument earlier in the thread that martial heroes need magical justification in order to do supernatural things. I was just responding that such arbitrary definitions between "mundane" and "magical" are a product of D&D, and one that doesn't serve a useful purpose.I think you are conflating "supernatural" with "superhuman". Being superhuman doesn't require supernatural explanation in a fantasy universe. Something can be superhuman with no outside supernatural explanation. As I talked about above, there is no basis for ascribing D&Dish defintions of spell-casting or magic to Gandalf. By your definition, he is all supernatural, no magic.I think you are just missing the point of those tree-running scenes. Those are just there to demonstrate the ability and skill of the characters. The implication is that they are just that good. Furthermore, wuxia and anime doen't presuppose that supernatural explanations are required to perform superhuman feats. Mere training, physical conditioning, spiritual development, and skill are sufficient to transform a wimpy boy into a warrior that can walk on water and lift 20-ton boulders.</blockquote>

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