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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5968624" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>You know I read that list for "high level fighters" and then I look at the wizards. Give a fighter <em>every single ability on that list by the time they hit level 6 in addition to their current normal abilities</em> and I'd still say they had significantly less influence on combat than a 3.X 7th level specialist conjurer. (For a 1e post UA fighter the wizard <em>might</em> need fifth level spells).</p><p> </p><p>And other than the perception issue (and arguably the stat buff) there's literally nothing you've listed they can do out of combat.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>No. The prevailing argument is that to function as a fighter they absolutely and emphatically must have these abilities. If they do not get them then <em>there is no viable fighter class</em>. (Or at least there is - but it's not a front liner. It's the instant killer who's as squishy as the wizard but makes the 2e high strength and dex dart-specialist look like a beginner).</p><p> </p><p>Either the fighter must have these abilities or the level cap on the fighter should be obvious rather than subtle. You need to say that "There are no mundane fighters of level higher than 6". It's a simple choice between no fighter and a supernaturally empowered one. At least unless you want gatling-dart-throwers to be the order of the day.</p><p> </p><p>How they got them is almost academic. In over half or all hulk stories the Gamma Radiation is irrelevant and if anything makes things less believable rather than more. It's a figleaf not an attempt to justify.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>And we're talking past each other. Why is the idea "Every high level fighter must justify strength and toughness in their background - but it need not be the same for every fighter" a problem? Why must all fighters have the same power source?</p><p></p><p>And if the fighter doesn't get this then the fighter doesn't get a full length class (or you cap everyone, as was done in 4e). It's as simple as that. Do you want the fighter to be a viable class?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5968624, member: 87792"] You know I read that list for "high level fighters" and then I look at the wizards. Give a fighter [I]every single ability on that list by the time they hit level 6 in addition to their current normal abilities[/I] and I'd still say they had significantly less influence on combat than a 3.X 7th level specialist conjurer. (For a 1e post UA fighter the wizard [I]might[/I] need fifth level spells). And other than the perception issue (and arguably the stat buff) there's literally nothing you've listed they can do out of combat. No. The prevailing argument is that to function as a fighter they absolutely and emphatically must have these abilities. If they do not get them then [I]there is no viable fighter class[/I]. (Or at least there is - but it's not a front liner. It's the instant killer who's as squishy as the wizard but makes the 2e high strength and dex dart-specialist look like a beginner). Either the fighter must have these abilities or the level cap on the fighter should be obvious rather than subtle. You need to say that "There are no mundane fighters of level higher than 6". It's a simple choice between no fighter and a supernaturally empowered one. At least unless you want gatling-dart-throwers to be the order of the day. How they got them is almost academic. In over half or all hulk stories the Gamma Radiation is irrelevant and if anything makes things less believable rather than more. It's a figleaf not an attempt to justify. And we're talking past each other. Why is the idea "Every high level fighter must justify strength and toughness in their background - but it need not be the same for every fighter" a problem? Why must all fighters have the same power source? And if the fighter doesn't get this then the fighter doesn't get a full length class (or you cap everyone, as was done in 4e). It's as simple as that. Do you want the fighter to be a viable class? [/QUOTE]
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