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The Door, Player Expectations, and why 5e can't unify the fanbase.
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5972089" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I haven't reread them, but I've read them.</p><p></p><p>The giant can stand, walk and jump as a biped - despite having (in some sense) mundane muscles and bones - because most people don't worry about the implications of that sort of mass for that sort of body structure.</p><p></p><p>The reason the fighter can't jump 500' is because of the implications of his/her mundane muscles and bones for that sort of mass, given that sort of body structure.</p><p></p><p>The two cases seem to me to be pretty parallel. That's why I don't really get the difference. We forgive the giant because, in fantasy land, we don't worry about minor details of physics. Why does the fighter not get the same treatment? - that's what I'm not getting.</p><p></p><p>(I'm not questioning your suspension of disbelief here - or its absence. I'm looking for the explanation/analysis that goes beyond being a biographical fact about you.)</p><p></p><p>The explanation for the abilities I'm thinking of - epic jumps, the (notorious) levelling of mountains, etc - plus the example, from my own paragon tier 4e game, of the fighter-cleric shoving his hands into the forge to hold the artefact still - <em>is</em> toughness.</p><p></p><p>So for me there is no contrast between "toughness" and "unexplainable". Toughness does the explaining.</p><p></p><p>It's a bit like the Dark Wanderer abilities I quoted upthread. How does a martial PC do that stuff? Because s/he knows and has trodden every path. It's dream logic in action.</p><p></p><p>The dream logic also explains how the same fighter who survives a red dragon's breath, or (in my game's case) shoving his hands directly into a dwarven furnace, might later on die to a burning hands spell that hits him when he has only a couple of hit poitns left.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5972089, member: 42582"] I haven't reread them, but I've read them. The giant can stand, walk and jump as a biped - despite having (in some sense) mundane muscles and bones - because most people don't worry about the implications of that sort of mass for that sort of body structure. The reason the fighter can't jump 500' is because of the implications of his/her mundane muscles and bones for that sort of mass, given that sort of body structure. The two cases seem to me to be pretty parallel. That's why I don't really get the difference. We forgive the giant because, in fantasy land, we don't worry about minor details of physics. Why does the fighter not get the same treatment? - that's what I'm not getting. (I'm not questioning your suspension of disbelief here - or its absence. I'm looking for the explanation/analysis that goes beyond being a biographical fact about you.) The explanation for the abilities I'm thinking of - epic jumps, the (notorious) levelling of mountains, etc - plus the example, from my own paragon tier 4e game, of the fighter-cleric shoving his hands into the forge to hold the artefact still - [I]is[/I] toughness. So for me there is no contrast between "toughness" and "unexplainable". Toughness does the explaining. It's a bit like the Dark Wanderer abilities I quoted upthread. How does a martial PC do that stuff? Because s/he knows and has trodden every path. It's dream logic in action. The dream logic also explains how the same fighter who survives a red dragon's breath, or (in my game's case) shoving his hands directly into a dwarven furnace, might later on die to a burning hands spell that hits him when he has only a couple of hit poitns left. [/QUOTE]
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