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<blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 6355120" data-attributes="member: 6698278">Let's clarify.&nbsp;&nbsp; Many of the ideas and methodologies put forth by 4e were upstart ideas in the world of D&amp;D.&nbsp; 4e specifically closed off avenues of play available in every single other edition of D&amp;D.&nbsp;&nbsp; That was my point and it was an explanation of why people had an emotional reaction to that edition.&nbsp;&nbsp; It was an upstart design philosophy.&nbsp; I am aware and have been that some people even from the earliest days of D&amp;D loved 4e.&nbsp; I've wondered in some cases if they were self hating masochists all those years prior to 4e from the way they talk about those earlier editions.&nbsp;&nbsp; The irritation for me is that there seems to be a deliberate attempt to hijack a popular brand primarily to assure a less popular way of playing is available to a subset of people even if that means knocking D&amp;D off it's #1 sales position.My point about indie games and others is that they've been targeting other playstyles for some time.&nbsp; They realize that D&amp;D owns the middle of the road player so they target the fringe interests on purpose.&nbsp;&nbsp; In some cases those fringes are big but still fringe relative to D&amp;D.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Emerikol, post: 6355120, member: 6698278"] Let's clarify. Many of the ideas and methodologies put forth by 4e were upstart ideas in the world of D&D. 4e specifically closed off avenues of play available in every single other edition of D&D. That was my point and it was an explanation of why people had an emotional reaction to that edition. It was an upstart design philosophy. I am aware and have been that some people even from the earliest days of D&D loved 4e. I've wondered in [I][B]some[/B][/I] cases if they were self hating masochists all those years prior to 4e from the way they talk about those earlier editions. The irritation for me is that there seems to be a deliberate attempt to hijack a popular brand primarily to assure a less popular way of playing is available to a subset of people even if that means knocking D&D off it's #1 sales position. My point about indie games and others is that they've been targeting other playstyles for some time. They realize that D&D owns the middle of the road player so they target the fringe interests on purpose. In some cases those fringes are big but still fringe relative to D&D. [/QUOTE]

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