Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Dragoon (Heroic Tier)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="knightofround" data-source="post: 5290071" data-attributes="member: 27884"><p>Actually, I didn't have any problems with the Drake stats, I thought they were very well balanced compared to the Ranger beast companions. I was just pointing out that rangers only get three class features; their fighting style, prime shot, and quarry, and they give up everything except the quarry to get the companion. I think the changes you made are just fine...I still don't like the flavor of Dragoons being a pet class (that would be more of a paragon option, imo) but hey, if you really want it I think you made a good effort to keep it balanced. Perhaps if you had one build totally focused on the beast companion, and the other build totally void of the companion with other goodies to balance it out?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well its not like you *can't* have [Weapon] attacks vs NADs, in fact all martial classes do, it just means that you need to adjust the damage & effects downwards appropiately if you really want the power to keep the [Weapon] keyword.</p><p></p><p>The attack differential with NADs is not so much about the attack differential between a monster's AC and NADs, because some monsters can still have a high Reflex, its the fact that when you use the [Weapon] keyword you get to add your weapon proficiency bonus to the attack, which is either +2 or +3. This is why most monsters have their AC higher than their NADs...so in the scenario where you have a [Weapon] attack vs a monster NAD, even if the monster NAD=their AC, its like giving the power a +2 or 3 attack bonus compared to an implement attack vs the NAD.</p><p></p><p>Hmm I think it's still a bit overpowered, but it's much closer. Slide+Shift+NDA is a pretty strong combination, even without the mod. For comparison, Rogue Piercing Strike(AtWill 1) is 1[W]+Dex mod, vs Reflex, requires light blade (which is going to be much lower damage than the weapons Dragoons will be using). Dragoons would get a Slide, Shift, and the ability to use a stronger weapon at the expense of just the STR mod. Slides are *very* powerful for anybody. How about making it just 1[W]+Strength vs AC and a Slide 1? With this attack plus a regular shift you can easily set up your own flank, you don't even need the "swap places" or an extra shift feature. And if you're keeping the beast companion, you don't even need the slide. But I do like the idea of Dragoons keeping a slide at will to make polearm momentum viable.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Interesting. But I would also point out that a striker can't do its job if it can't apply its bonus damage feature. Your dragoon is especially vulnerable to movement-reduction effects...most striker features are designed so that you can fulfill the requirements fairly easily unless you are stunned. Rogues are really the only exception so they get extra striker damage to compensate for it. Your Dragoon loses its striker damage vs stun, restrained, immobilized, and dazed. (and most likely slowed as well in many combat situations) It also forces them to draw OAs in order to apply their striker damage vs. Solos (or any encounter when you're down to one mob), which is particularly lame imo. You might be okay if you have a reach weapon and the opponent doesn't have threatening reach, but the former pigeonholes class options and the latter becomes more of a problem at higher tiers.</p><p></p><p>Another thing to keep in mind is that if the Dragoon Boosts, they are required to spend their shift *before* their standard action to gain their momentum, so they can't move away afterwards...it seems a pretty fair tradeoff to me, to sacrifice your mobility to gain momentum. I'm not really going to press the issue though, if you want to keep it as-is thats fine because most encounters you won't need to use it more than 2x anyway.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="knightofround, post: 5290071, member: 27884"] Actually, I didn't have any problems with the Drake stats, I thought they were very well balanced compared to the Ranger beast companions. I was just pointing out that rangers only get three class features; their fighting style, prime shot, and quarry, and they give up everything except the quarry to get the companion. I think the changes you made are just fine...I still don't like the flavor of Dragoons being a pet class (that would be more of a paragon option, imo) but hey, if you really want it I think you made a good effort to keep it balanced. Perhaps if you had one build totally focused on the beast companion, and the other build totally void of the companion with other goodies to balance it out? Well its not like you *can't* have [Weapon] attacks vs NADs, in fact all martial classes do, it just means that you need to adjust the damage & effects downwards appropiately if you really want the power to keep the [Weapon] keyword. The attack differential with NADs is not so much about the attack differential between a monster's AC and NADs, because some monsters can still have a high Reflex, its the fact that when you use the [Weapon] keyword you get to add your weapon proficiency bonus to the attack, which is either +2 or +3. This is why most monsters have their AC higher than their NADs...so in the scenario where you have a [Weapon] attack vs a monster NAD, even if the monster NAD=their AC, its like giving the power a +2 or 3 attack bonus compared to an implement attack vs the NAD. Hmm I think it's still a bit overpowered, but it's much closer. Slide+Shift+NDA is a pretty strong combination, even without the mod. For comparison, Rogue Piercing Strike(AtWill 1) is 1[W]+Dex mod, vs Reflex, requires light blade (which is going to be much lower damage than the weapons Dragoons will be using). Dragoons would get a Slide, Shift, and the ability to use a stronger weapon at the expense of just the STR mod. Slides are *very* powerful for anybody. How about making it just 1[W]+Strength vs AC and a Slide 1? With this attack plus a regular shift you can easily set up your own flank, you don't even need the "swap places" or an extra shift feature. And if you're keeping the beast companion, you don't even need the slide. But I do like the idea of Dragoons keeping a slide at will to make polearm momentum viable. Interesting. But I would also point out that a striker can't do its job if it can't apply its bonus damage feature. Your dragoon is especially vulnerable to movement-reduction effects...most striker features are designed so that you can fulfill the requirements fairly easily unless you are stunned. Rogues are really the only exception so they get extra striker damage to compensate for it. Your Dragoon loses its striker damage vs stun, restrained, immobilized, and dazed. (and most likely slowed as well in many combat situations) It also forces them to draw OAs in order to apply their striker damage vs. Solos (or any encounter when you're down to one mob), which is particularly lame imo. You might be okay if you have a reach weapon and the opponent doesn't have threatening reach, but the former pigeonholes class options and the latter becomes more of a problem at higher tiers. Another thing to keep in mind is that if the Dragoon Boosts, they are required to spend their shift *before* their standard action to gain their momentum, so they can't move away afterwards...it seems a pretty fair tradeoff to me, to sacrifice your mobility to gain momentum. I'm not really going to press the issue though, if you want to keep it as-is thats fine because most encounters you won't need to use it more than 2x anyway. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Dragoon (Heroic Tier)
Top