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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Phasics" data-source="post: 3083886" data-attributes="member: 38866">Just been going over the numbers and I just cant seem to get my head around how they arrived at some of the values. for the Druid PHB II shapeshifter varient.Now I'll grant free shifting at will is a nice thing to have but it seems alot has been traded off without much gain. Not to mention no animal companion so your damge potential is already down. So if somone could explain the rational of the following, I'd be greatfulespically considering you keep your own STR DEX and CON, as i read it it makes this class varient even more ability dependant than a paladin !In case you cant be arsed reading the whole thing just give me you opion on whether or not keeping an animal companion would make the shapeshifter varient overpowered ? if it does what about a weaker animal companion gained at level three and progresses normally from there as if druid had multiclassed until lv3.OR//some magical items work when shifted e.g. atribute modifersOR//the dmg dice shown are for medium creature and need to be adjusted for larger forms i.e a 1d8 written on ferriocious slayer is acutally mean to be 2d6, 1d6 meant to be 1d8 etc etc2d6 on elemtnal should be two steps hgher 2d6 ---> 3d6 ---> 4d6.back to mainFor Arguments sake assume 28 point statsSTR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10 WIS 14 CHA 10these dont include druid spell buffs1st Level Predator Form1d6 dmg (1st level thisis fine)5 Reach (fine)+4 STR (= STR 18 very nice at first level)+4 Natural armour (= AC 16 also nice at first level)50 feet speed ( defiently the shizznit at 1st level)so AC16 with 1d6+4 damage (6-11dmg)so 1st level no prob everything looking good 5th Level Ariel1d6 dmg (bit dissapointing but ok)5 reach (no surprise)+2 STR (ok I can wear it)+1 enchamnet to weapons (every 4 druid levels)2 Natural armour (again can wear it)40 feet fly speed ( well flying whenever wherever basically makes up for everything here)the ability to fly as a swift action is very handy I'll grant you but your max damage is basically unchanged.Porbably still use predator form for combat Ferricous Slayer Form 8th LevelSize Largedamage 1d8 bite 2x 1d6 claw (hrmm brown bear gets 2d6 and 2x 1d8 ?!?!?!)NOT TO MENTION BITE IS PRIME UNLIKE BEAR WHERE 2 CLAWS ARE PRIMEreach 5 (hrmmm brown bear which you apprently look like get a reach of 10 ?!?!?)+8 STR (brown bear gets 27 STR ! 5 less)+8 Natural Armour (bear only gets +5, 3 more , nice)+2 enchament weaponsspeed 40 feet (reasonable) Gettin low on damageFull attk 1d8+8 , 2 x 1d6+5 = 21-38dmgcomapre to bearFull Attck 2 claws +11 melee (1d8+8) and bite +6 melee (2d6+4) = 24-48 !!Less damage less reach for what ?!? extra 3 AC and swift shiftin ?!?!? Forrest Avenger FormSize Large (treant are huge so using shambling mounds for comparison)Damage 2 x 1d8 ( GROAN )Reach 10 (fianlly normal for large critter)+12 STR ( mound gets 21 so where ahead for a change with 26 STR)+12 Natural Amrour (mound gets 11 so ahead by 1 whatever)+3 enchatment to weapons20 feet (we're big and slow and we know it, BUT mound at least gets a swim speed too !)ummm could i get some damge with my new form ? ... please ?2 x 1d8+11 = 22-38 (hell we could do that 4 levels ago !)vs2 slams +11 melee (2d6+5) = 14-34 (keep in mind this is a shamb mound not treant)Elemental Fury FormSize Huge (a normal wildshape only gets Large elemental but gets huge animals so will compare to a Huge Elephant since dont get any special elemental attacks)Damage 2 x 2d6 (well least we finally hit greatsword damage, Elephant gets 2 x 2d6) [large elemental gets 2d8]Reach 15 (same for elephant)STR +16 (elephant same)+4 enchantment weaponsNatural Amrour +16 (elepahnt gets 7 , elemental large gets 10, least we're ahead here)30 feet normalDamage if you can call it that2 x 2d6+14 = 32-52 (nothin to write home about)vsLarge elemental 2 slams +12 melee (2d8+7) = 18-46Huge Elephant Slam +16 melee (2d6+10) and 2 stamps +11 melee (2d6+5) = 26-56So as far as I can see you lose a perfectly good damge dealing animal companion and then have to suffer more by having either same or less damage potential yourself ?!?!?! I thought the whole idea of this varient was that it was a combat varient where you more than make up for the loss of an animal companion with the damage you can do. Looking at this the only thing you gain is a slightly better chance of not being hit and that is made mute if you consider the natural armour feat. and magic enchament for free ? hell greater magic fang is hardly a burden to cast since it lasts 1hr/lv So please if you can explain it to me, by saying focus on your actions in combat instead of worrying about your animal companion do they mean the chance to micromanage your sub par damage potential ? please somone what am I missing ???  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></blockquote>

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