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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6356471" data-attributes="member: 87792">If those are your criteria then I'd say emphatically not.&nbsp; RPGs are smartening up and have been for a long timeFirst, we no longer have the shovelware of the past.&nbsp; We no longer have the oWoD/TORG metaplot - which explicitly took away the ability of the players to impact the world.&nbsp; On this point the nadir of RPGs was in the 90s.Few games other than D&amp;D have save points - or as we like to call them by another name, resurrection spells.&nbsp; The nadir here was 3.5 (although 4e Essentials came pretty close) - although PF Adventure Paths might be even worse.&nbsp; But if you think that save points are the sign of a dumbed down game then stop playing just about the only RPG I'm aware of that has them.The Quest and Journal system of makework was at its strongest when you forced people to map rather than to solve situations.&nbsp; That said, this one might be on the rise with Paizo's adventure paths (although even here, the utter nadir was in the 80s with Dragonlance and the Obscure Death Rule).Modern indy games including the OSR are by historical standards, whip-sharp, focussed on what they want to do, hard as written when they choose to be, and focus on making what you do matter.&nbsp; The nadir for all this was, as I say, in the 90s with metaplot.The only case where you have a point is that puzzles to challenge the player rather than the character are badly out of fashion.&nbsp; And even there the OSR makes good things.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6356471, member: 87792"] If those are your criteria then I'd say emphatically not. RPGs are smartening up and have been for a long time First, we no longer have the shovelware of the past. We no longer have the oWoD/TORG metaplot - which explicitly took away the ability of the players to impact the world. On this point the nadir of RPGs was in the 90s. Few games other than D&D have save points - or as we like to call them by another name, resurrection spells. The nadir here was 3.5 (although 4e Essentials came pretty close) - although PF Adventure Paths might be even worse. But if you think that save points are the sign of a dumbed down game then stop playing just about the only RPG I'm aware of that has them. The Quest and Journal system of makework was at its strongest when you forced people to map rather than to solve situations. That said, this one might be on the rise with Paizo's adventure paths (although even here, the utter nadir was in the 80s with Dragonlance and the Obscure Death Rule). Modern indy games including the OSR are by historical standards, whip-sharp, focussed on what they want to do, hard as written when they choose to be, and focus on making what you do matter. The nadir for all this was, as I say, in the 90s with metaplot. The only case where you have a point is that puzzles to challenge the player rather than the character are badly out of fashion. And even there the OSR makes good things. [/QUOTE]

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