Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Dumbing Down of RPGs
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6358592" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>And in practice old school D&D is arbitrary and makes no sense. Right. Now we've got the gratuitous mudslinging caused by misuse of techniques out of the way can we get back to the concepts please?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As originally written wandering monsters did not carry loot. And the goal was to avoid combat because it was lethal and the XP rewards for combat were minor compared to the XP rewards for loot. 2e <em>vastly</em> changed the nature of the game by dropping XP for GP from the default. Fighting wandering monsters: All the risk, 20% of the XP reward, and doesn't get you deeper. Wandering monsters were a problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Apply also to your claims about Fail Forward. And no it isn't where repeated skills are explicitly allowed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do mean negative. You're just beating up on a strawman here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Changing situations getting more dangerous <em>should</em> be interesting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Once more you are beating up on a strawman. Getting messed up by failure is in line with failing forward. Where Fail Forward kicks in is where there would be rolls without consequences. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That all depends on how interesting getting back out of the pit would be. If you have to get out of the pit on the side you jumped from I agree with Umbran. If the pit leads to a lair it's definitely failing forward. If you can climb out of the far side of the pit the methods are different so it's failing forward.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A <em>lot</em> of rulebooks are often laughable and mockable - especially when they have a sole author and are self published (as most Indy games are). And for the record, Ron Edwards wasn't an 'everyone else is doing badwrongfun' snob. Simply that some ways are bad ones. Gamism wasn't his thing - but at a conceptual level he appreciated it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you want to see Fail Forward in action done well, go watch <em>Raiders of the Lost Ark</em>. In it Indy fails at just about everything he sets out to do just about every time he tries. He just fails spectacularly and entertainingly and his attempts to cover the new unfolding situation drives things forward. That is Fail Forward as it should be done.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is a reason I consider the 90s the nadir of good game design.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6358592, member: 87792"] And in practice old school D&D is arbitrary and makes no sense. Right. Now we've got the gratuitous mudslinging caused by misuse of techniques out of the way can we get back to the concepts please? As originally written wandering monsters did not carry loot. And the goal was to avoid combat because it was lethal and the XP rewards for combat were minor compared to the XP rewards for loot. 2e [I]vastly[/I] changed the nature of the game by dropping XP for GP from the default. Fighting wandering monsters: All the risk, 20% of the XP reward, and doesn't get you deeper. Wandering monsters were a problem. Apply also to your claims about Fail Forward. And no it isn't where repeated skills are explicitly allowed. I do mean negative. You're just beating up on a strawman here. Changing situations getting more dangerous [I]should[/I] be interesting. Once more you are beating up on a strawman. Getting messed up by failure is in line with failing forward. Where Fail Forward kicks in is where there would be rolls without consequences. That all depends on how interesting getting back out of the pit would be. If you have to get out of the pit on the side you jumped from I agree with Umbran. If the pit leads to a lair it's definitely failing forward. If you can climb out of the far side of the pit the methods are different so it's failing forward. A [I]lot[/I] of rulebooks are often laughable and mockable - especially when they have a sole author and are self published (as most Indy games are). And for the record, Ron Edwards wasn't an 'everyone else is doing badwrongfun' snob. Simply that some ways are bad ones. Gamism wasn't his thing - but at a conceptual level he appreciated it. If you want to see Fail Forward in action done well, go watch [I]Raiders of the Lost Ark[/I]. In it Indy fails at just about everything he sets out to do just about every time he tries. He just fails spectacularly and entertainingly and his attempts to cover the new unfolding situation drives things forward. That is Fail Forward as it should be done. There is a reason I consider the 90s the nadir of good game design. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Dumbing Down of RPGs
Top