NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="BSF" data-source="post: 1975219" data-attributes="member: 13098">Hoo boy!  This is a doozy.  OK, the problems exist on many levels here.  I am going to try  to snip liberally because this is going to be long as it is.At the core, this is an issue of trust.  The players don't trust that you know what you are doing, or that you won't arbitrarily screw them over, or that you are not interested in running a game that will cater to their desires.  Unfortunately, trust is generally earned, not arbitrarily given.  This is why it is so important that the first adventure or two of a new campaign are top notch.  Well, see this is part of the problem.  Why aren't the rules the same for NPCs and PCs?  3.x gives you a great toolkit to twist and break the rules when you need to.  Namely in the category of feats.  If there is something that is "broken" about your monsters/NPCs, be sure you back it up with a game mechanic that allows it to be "broken".  Arbitrarily applying different rules to NPCs than you do to PCs breaks the trust that you know what you are doing, or won't arbitrarily screw over the PCs, or both.  Allow me to reiterate.  Apply the rules exactly the same.  Just be sure you provide an in-game reason why this particular NPC can twist those rules.  Just be prepared for your PCs to look for a way to do the same trick if it was a particularly interesting gimmick. Agreed, this is very annoying.  Make it a habit of spending a little time out-of-game to address these concerns.  Do not dismiss the question, postpone it until a non-game time.  Heck, you have a month between sessions?  Make a yahoo group and delegate all rules questions to there.  This does not mean you need to spill all the secrets in answering them.  It can suffice to say "It's a feature of a PrC you are not aware of."  Or "There are certain feats that are available which allow something like that.  Unfortunately, many of them have a prerequisite of being undead."  Arbitrary secrecy creates distrust.  Once your players trust you more, they will question things less.  It sounds like you also have some playstyle differences.  Narrative styles do not preclude a strong mechanical understanding of the game.  DnD 3.x provides a very strong mechanical baseline.  Some deride this as being too video-gamey.  Whatever.  There is a  strong benefit to that baseline in that it provides a baseline that we all begin from.  With that baseline in place, you can empower the players by delegating many tasks off to them.  Previous editions were a bit more open-ended and it wasn't uncommon for players to develop a habit of arguing their perspective  so they can do nifty things.  With 3.x, there are the rules.  Then there are feats, which can break the rules.Classic example:  You can only use one AOO a round.  Combat Reflexes gives you more AOOs if you have a higher dexterity.  You have your rule.  You have your feat that breaks the rule.  If a PC wants to be fast on their feet and always able to take advantage of an opening when an opponent drops his guard, that PC had better have a good dex and take combat reflexes.  First, you have a copy of each PC right?  Including skill bonuses right?  Start each encounter with a brief description.  Then ask everyone for a d20 roll.  If they ask why, and they will, tell them it is for a knowledge check.  Remind them that Knowledge skills can't be used untrained.  Do NOT tell them what kind of Knowledge check you are looking for.  When they roll, and give you the results, then apply any applicable skill bonuses and tell them what they know about the monster.  They may buck the idea initially.  "Everyone would know what that is."  Why?  There is a mechanic in the game to reflect that knowledge.  If you want to know what "everyone" would know.  Take a rank, or half-rank.  One skill point is enough to get you a die roll that would tell you the basics if you roll high enough.  Use odd monsters.  Might I suggest the Tiefling template on your trolls?  That energy resistance 5 is pretty tasty.  Half fiendish is nice as well.  Hell, make all your trolls tieflings and make it a campaign element.  Is it fair?  Maybe not.  But it does emphasize how 3.x allows you to easily change monsters.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />1 - Nah, if you really feel the need to penalize them, then just don't give them exp for that encounter.  But why do that at all?  Change your style a little bit and the problem goes away.2 - Non-standard monsters, templated monsters, monsters with class levels, advanced monsters and the like are all good options.  Take it step further though.  Stop using monsters entirely.  Why not use humanoids?  It's hard to metagame what an evil humanoid can do.  3 - Better yet, laugh when they tell you how you should run an encounter.  Politely remind them that you are not a video game server and they aren't the DM.  You have NPCs that they have not learned the capabilities of yet.  4 - Definitely!Don't invite this player back.  Explain that you put in a lot of time and effort into the game and if he can't respect that, you don't need him at the table.  I have had players say similar things to me, but always in the manner of jest.  Within one of my circles of friends, when I was younger, we all spoke to each other like that.  I occasionally get similar responses from my players.  They are always in the same vein as a rat-bastard DM exclamation when I have pulled off something they did not expect.  Especially when it was with thier unwitting help and they now have something new to deal with in the game.  I have never had a player say something like that and mean it.  To be honest, you hold the solution to many of these problems in your hands.  Yeah, that sounds harsh, but it is true.  It isn't always fair that the DM has to handle these things.  But there you have it.As a final suggestion, I would encourage you to frankly speak with the players.  Tell them how you feel.  Tell them why they are wrong about some of the monsters.  Tell them that they need to seek ways of applying knowledge in-game and that metagame knowledge will either change the encounter (It's easy to slap a template on something if you need to) or will result in no exp for the encounter.  All the risk with none of the reward.  Explain that the game isn't you vs them.  Then sit back and listen to what they say.  If you are lucky, they will be honest with you and you will be able to quickly determine where the problems stem from.  Have a thick skin (Natural Armor bonus of +3 or more) and don't get embroiled in an emotional outburst.  If you really want to make your game better, then you need to know what the players really think.</blockquote>

Verification