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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tenbones" data-source="post: 4325088" data-attributes="member: 7499">I personally am on the fence. I'll admit - the rabidness of the 4e-club (especially on this forum) has been a bit of a turn-off. I've tried to read the replies to the OP and other threads expressing their mild-concern.Personally - I'm really depending on the responses from the 4e crowd to get a good idea about the 4e system in regards to my own personal concerns.It seems that here - the OP (and correct me if I'm understanding incorrectly) is saying the game has a certain baseline for optimization that previous editions of D&D lack per se.The abstraction of "class" in and of itself has always been a distinction in the D&D game since 1e. Being an adventuring class in and of itself was meant to have implications to personal training/inclination and availiability to such training that "commoners" simply don't have/endeavor to do. But the devil has always been in the details as to what differentiates one adventurer of the same class from another. It looks like this is removed from 4e? or at the very least not really addressed? It "appears" that many of the given "powers" (be they Per/day/encounter/whatever) are simply just aspects of a generic concept of a class - and the mechanics seem to work (especially since it's all miniatures-based) around video-game mechanics.It seems the role implied here is more to do with combat-role than the idea of the character. I'm not sure I like what I'm reading about it, personally. I'm not a big fan of 3.5 either - there's lots of issues with it - but they're fixable. I think Pathfinder is a good (not great) step towards that direction. So I guess my questions are - 1) The prevalance of miniature-based tactical rules - does it overpower the role-playing opportunities of the game in the sense that the game is skewed more towards combat than say, social/political play?2) Can you, for instance, faithfully re-create classic fantasy-characters through the basic game? Or is it unrealistic for Elric to have an ability "Come and Get It" (lol).  Does the fact that every class gets these abilities detract from the context of a character? Does the characters you envision match the class? or do they have to wrap themselves around the class and therefore change their own context?</blockquote>

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