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<blockquote data-quote="Delta" data-source="post: 4528783" data-attributes="member: 40269">My picture:&nbsp;[code]&nbsp; &nbsp; OD&amp;D&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; Holmes&nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Mold AD&amp;D line (1e)&nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Mentz&nbsp; 2e&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3e[/code]&nbsp;To me, the keenest thing is Holmes collapsing race &amp; class, which was nowhere in OD&amp;D. (Even in original white books, elves had to track separate XP for wizard &amp; fighter classes). Of course, he points out you can mix &amp; match in AD&amp;D, so for Holmes that was clearly a temporary simplification, not intended to be a whole game system unto itself.&nbsp;And of course he has things like 1d8 Hit Dice which weren't in the original white books, but the same supplements which basically were collected into AD&amp;D. He's got the same list of monsters (giant animals) as AD&amp;D, not the wierd novelties as in Moldvay/Mentzer.&nbsp;Actually, in Holmes all magic weapons add the bonus to both &quot;to hit&quot; and damage -- except for swords. Hammers do, arrows do, etc. (see p. 37 after the first sentence).&nbsp;I see the AD&amp;D references as being very important. Even if they stuttered in execution due to time of the publishing, the intention was very clear.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Delta, post: 4528783, member: 40269"] My picture: [code] OD&D | | Holmes | | Mold AD&D line (1e) | | Mentz 2e | 3e [/code] To me, the keenest thing is Holmes collapsing race & class, which was nowhere in OD&D. (Even in original white books, elves had to track separate XP for wizard & fighter classes). Of course, he points out you can mix & match in AD&D, so for Holmes that was clearly a temporary simplification, not intended to be a whole game system unto itself. And of course he has things like 1d8 Hit Dice which weren't in the original white books, but the same supplements which basically were collected into AD&D. He's got the same list of monsters (giant animals) as AD&D, not the wierd novelties as in Moldvay/Mentzer. Actually, in Holmes all magic weapons add the bonus to both "to hit" and damage -- [i]except for swords[/i]. Hammers do, arrows do, etc. (see p. 37 after the first sentence). I see the AD&D references as being very important. Even if they stuttered in execution due to time of the publishing, the intention was very clear. [/QUOTE]

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