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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jmucchiello" data-source="post: 2932949" data-attributes="member: 813">Why d20 is not an elegant system?* It does not scale well without alteration. The epic rules alter the saving throw and BAB progressions because otherwise the distance between good save vs bad saves exceeds the d20 range.* Monsters use very different rules than PCs for advancement. This is really a correlary to the above. There is no limit to the BAB of an Outsider. So a 40 HD Outsider has +40 BAB and 40th level fighter has only a +30 BAB. But if a PC is playing a pit fiend/fighter he has a 20HD + 20d10 fighter HD and his BAB is still +30.* The system allows and sometime encourages adding modifiers from more than one ability score to a DC check. This doesn't scale with high level characters. A typical primary ability modifier might be +6 at a certain level (I don't want to debate what level that is). This is an assumption of the CR system. If you can use to ability modifiers to add +10 to the same roll, you are outside of the system's assumptions about advancing ability modifiers.* While the way to resolve an action is unified (D20 + mods versus a DC), the way to get that DC is not very unified. It relies of charts and tables from each subsystem. Sometime HD matter, sometimes they don't.* The system assumes that character spend wealth on magic items. This magic item subsystem is a point buy system imposed over the class system. And determining the costs/value of some magic items are not well defined within the system.* There exist mechanics other than d20+mods versus DC in the system: Concealment uses percentage dice. Fortifying armors use percentage dice. Turning Undead is just weird.* The vancian spell system, regardless of how you feel about it, is not elegant. Each spell is in itself an exception to the rules. Elegant systems provide frameworks that you can plug into.* etc.Why I don't care?* I can house rule stuff that bugs me and most of the above doesn't bug me enough to house rule it (even though I certainly acknowledge the cracks in the system exist.)* Or I can use someone else's alterations of the sytem to fill in the cracks. All that 3rd party stuff has gotta be good for something. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />* And, when I'm playing a game, I rarely bask in the glow of its elegance. I've played elegant RPGs and never once during a session did I employ the logic of its die rolling mechanic/task resolution system and turn to my friends to say "That was so elegant. I have goose bumps. Don't you?" and realize from the ecstatic looks on their faces that they did indeed.Why you should look up FUDGE?* You should always read about other RPG systems. They help you by broadening your horizons. Even if you never play FUDGE, it will show you that there is not One True Way to role-play and that can only improve your D&D games.</blockquote>

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