Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Elegance of d20 and D&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="jmucchiello" data-source="post: 2937756" data-attributes="member: 813"><p>Go back and read my Magic: The Gathering comments. MTG is almost 100% exceptions, yet the game is quite elegant because when you deal with an exception, it is a short, bite-sized morsel that does not require you to go consult three books for an explanation. Elegance is not the opposite of complexity.</p><p></p><p>My paper tiger is not an exception. It is an "ability" of the monster to suffer more damage than usual. So it can have a 16HD breath weapon, but be killed as if it only had 4 HD. But all the rules about the monster are local to the monster. You cannot say giving the monster an unusual ability is complexity (which is bad) because then you end up with all your monsters having the same set of abilities. Yes, you reduce complexity if all monsters are claw/claw/bite, fire-breathing, acid-immune dragons. And while you can make that elegant design, that doesn't make it good design. (Or fun either)</p><p></p><p>One of the "flaws" of standardization of abilities in 3.x is you have to know what the standard abilities do in order to see the keyword in the monster description and apply it correctly. The good thing about standardization is you only have one kind of incorporeality, not a dozen different kinds. The bad thing is you have to look up each keyword and understand how they work in order to run the monsters. Granted, over time you will come to know what they mean but that doesn't mean you always run them correctly. Incorporeality is like a half page of text. Do you really know how it works without refreshing your memory of it? I refer back to my 2e lightning bolt story now. I wonder how many 3.x DMs run some monster ability incorrectly without knowing because they think they know how it works but it they were to read it again, they'd discover they were wrong. (This paragraph has me planning to go read the special abilities section again....)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jmucchiello, post: 2937756, member: 813"] Go back and read my Magic: The Gathering comments. MTG is almost 100% exceptions, yet the game is quite elegant because when you deal with an exception, it is a short, bite-sized morsel that does not require you to go consult three books for an explanation. Elegance is not the opposite of complexity. My paper tiger is not an exception. It is an "ability" of the monster to suffer more damage than usual. So it can have a 16HD breath weapon, but be killed as if it only had 4 HD. But all the rules about the monster are local to the monster. You cannot say giving the monster an unusual ability is complexity (which is bad) because then you end up with all your monsters having the same set of abilities. Yes, you reduce complexity if all monsters are claw/claw/bite, fire-breathing, acid-immune dragons. And while you can make that elegant design, that doesn't make it good design. (Or fun either) One of the "flaws" of standardization of abilities in 3.x is you have to know what the standard abilities do in order to see the keyword in the monster description and apply it correctly. The good thing about standardization is you only have one kind of incorporeality, not a dozen different kinds. The bad thing is you have to look up each keyword and understand how they work in order to run the monsters. Granted, over time you will come to know what they mean but that doesn't mean you always run them correctly. Incorporeality is like a half page of text. Do you really know how it works without refreshing your memory of it? I refer back to my 2e lightning bolt story now. I wonder how many 3.x DMs run some monster ability incorrectly without knowing because they think they know how it works but it they were to read it again, they'd discover they were wrong. (This paragraph has me planning to go read the special abilities section again....) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
The Elegance of d20 and D&D
Top