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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BSF" data-source="post: 1727513" data-attributes="member: 13098">You would treat it as episodic initially.  There is nothing wrong with that.  It can be a fun jump into a game.  It all depends on what kind of story you are telling with the campaign.   Some players are able to do this very well.  They can put together story backgrounds and then translate these into game mechanics very effectively.  Heck, some players can even do so without having to optimize every little thing.  There are some players that can min-max a character very effectively and then string together some elements that rough in a background.  There are some players that have a very difficult time with translating background ideas into a functional character on the mechanical side.  Each player is different and I long ago learned that I cannot expect everyone to be able to leverage the rules of a game system the same way I can.  Many of them just don't have the interest.  It is because of this that I am hesitant to run my Angels campaign.  Maybe I am still waiting for the right mix of players?In the last campaign, the PCs stumbled across an artifact from a past age.  Alas, they lost it to the last person they wanted to see get it back.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Afterward, they found out the name of the artifact and then the bard was able to put some context to it."The Hammer of Dol Mannul. Crusher of Angels, Destroyer of Souls,the Hammer of Strength and Malice, Forged from the Black Iron minedfrom the Mines of Acrimony of mythical Mount Virulence which appearsonly once each millenium and never in the same spot twice, quenchedin the blood of a thousand virgin Elves and baptized in the agony of10 enslaved Solars. Bringer of Doom to those that oppose tyrannicalorder. The Hammer of Dol Mannul was a potent weapon for the forcesof darkness."In the game pre-history, Elves were an immortal, divine race.  In terms of Dieties and Demigods, each Elf would be a minimum of rank 0.  Almost all Elves would be considered Epic in terms of the ELH.  A thousand virgin Elves is not an easy thing to collect.  Of course, enslaving 10 Solars isn't an easy feat either.  The Angel campaign would involve finding a way to destroy this artifact.  I have even thought of writing it up as a mini-game in case people here on EN World would have some interest in playing with it.  I think it could be a cool, episodic game that would have some serious smackdown opportunities to it.  Yep, I said as much in my first post to this thread.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />My 'issue' is with the assertion that you must scale all NPCs to play with the ELH correctly.  And if you don't scale then that is one of the primary reasons why you might not like the ELH.  Most of what I don't like about the ELH is that the bigger everything technique is not innovative.  There are a lot of people here running ELH campaigns and I am not sure that they couldn't have come up with most of the mechanics in the book.  It's an uninspired extrapolation.  The biggest benefit to the book is that if you want to play that way, somebody has done the basic work for you.  That is a fine effort and has value.  I just wanted the ELH to be about more than that.  I can see that.  The Epic spell system is weak.  Most of us can agree on that.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  The idea of spellseeds is very cool.  The implementation was just weak.  I have been contemplating how the Elements of Magic might be retooled to become an Epic style spellcasting system.  I tossed the idea out to RangerWickett to see if he had any thoughts.  I think it would be neat to have quests to get spellseeds and then be able to rework all spells that are affected by that seed, on the fly.  Acquiring Spellseeds would then allow you to break the memorized formula approach in a way that exceeds metamagic feats.  I'm not sure it would work in practice at Epic levels, but it is worthy of some thought.I don't disagree with the bigger everything approach to Epic.  It doesn't completely suit my style of play.  And if the only way people are seeing for it to work is to scale all NPCs upwards, then it seems that the ELH is even less functional than I imagine.  I want a book that let's me bring modest beginning characters up from the beginning.  I want the characters to transcend.  I think the Immortal's Handbook will be more in line with what I am looking for.</blockquote>

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