Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Escapist on D&D Past, Present, and Future
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5760522" data-attributes="member: 61155"><p>I think there is a very large difference between: "4E was designed with awareness of MMOs, and was aimed at appealing to that crowd and to drawing in new players" and "4E's audience primarily consists of a new, younger generation, while those who grew up with original D&D have been alienated by it."</p><p> </p><p>Similarly, I <em>also </em>think there is a huge difference between, "Awesome! If 4E can bring in new gamers, that is good for the hobby as a whole!" and "Woohoo! I take pleasure in having existing players leave the game!" Feel free to dig up some posts as proof, but I'm doubtful there was any widespread attitude that involved folks actively cheering <em>anyone </em>leaving the hobby.</p><p> </p><p>In any case, yes, there were certainly gamers who were alienated by 4E. But also many others who stayed with it. I think the core of the fanbase for it <em>remains </em>players who have played D&D for years, rather than consisting of entirely new players - even though it has, hopefully, picked those up too. </p><p> </p><p>I think WotC's goal was a game that would remain appealing to existing gamers, address many problems folks had with the system, and also draw in new players and revitalize the hobby. Now, you can feel that they failed on any - or all - of those counts, and you can feel that the problems they may have addressed were not ones that you, personally, thought needed fixing. But I am confident they were attempting all three of those goals, with the best of intentions, rather than somehow believing that 'new players' was in some way incompatible with 'retaining existing players'. </p><p> </p><p>The truth is, insisting that they fired all 'true fans' of D&D is an argument that was old the second it was made, and just an indirect way of trying to undermine those who do support 4E. You can absolutely explain that you do not like 4E, or that you felt abandoned by it. But trying to speak for all old-school gamers, or trying to make generalizations about them - or about any group of gamers - is just going to be inaccurate.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MrMyth, post: 5760522, member: 61155"] I think there is a very large difference between: "4E was designed with awareness of MMOs, and was aimed at appealing to that crowd and to drawing in new players" and "4E's audience primarily consists of a new, younger generation, while those who grew up with original D&D have been alienated by it." Similarly, I [I]also [/I]think there is a huge difference between, "Awesome! If 4E can bring in new gamers, that is good for the hobby as a whole!" and "Woohoo! I take pleasure in having existing players leave the game!" Feel free to dig up some posts as proof, but I'm doubtful there was any widespread attitude that involved folks actively cheering [I]anyone [/I]leaving the hobby. In any case, yes, there were certainly gamers who were alienated by 4E. But also many others who stayed with it. I think the core of the fanbase for it [I]remains [/I]players who have played D&D for years, rather than consisting of entirely new players - even though it has, hopefully, picked those up too. I think WotC's goal was a game that would remain appealing to existing gamers, address many problems folks had with the system, and also draw in new players and revitalize the hobby. Now, you can feel that they failed on any - or all - of those counts, and you can feel that the problems they may have addressed were not ones that you, personally, thought needed fixing. But I am confident they were attempting all three of those goals, with the best of intentions, rather than somehow believing that 'new players' was in some way incompatible with 'retaining existing players'. The truth is, insisting that they fired all 'true fans' of D&D is an argument that was old the second it was made, and just an indirect way of trying to undermine those who do support 4E. You can absolutely explain that you do not like 4E, or that you felt abandoned by it. But trying to speak for all old-school gamers, or trying to make generalizations about them - or about any group of gamers - is just going to be inaccurate. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The Escapist on D&D Past, Present, and Future
Top