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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kaiyanwang" data-source="post: 5262967" data-attributes="member: 91656">This is why I cited ToB. Of course is a case of take and give.I just don't play that way. I of course recognize the issue - just don't agree with the cure. Ok, but it seems to me that you are fitting the gameworld to explain the mechanics. I like the explanation, though. I see. Well, that was an example - I hope the "bolded part" thing and my answer to Jack99 will make things more clear. Maybe, but then one could explain the "sameness" feel of the power, because "walks and quacks" like a martial one. Environment matters. Pits, traps. And one could just push to pull the ogre away from the rogue and put it in the mouth of the barbarian. Or is needed to put him away harmlessly.   The "bonus" word counts  for extra attacks. Not for bonus from feats. And are anyway extra attacks from haste and such. I keep the doubt on AOOs, but a recent discussion in the Paizo board convinced me that are allowed.BTW, since now trip is a mere attack, you can combine it without doubts with a whirlwind. 3.5 dodge was lame, point. PF one is better (because of CMD) even if not great - and mobility remains lame. Point. And yeah, a standard action whirlwindwould not be game breaking that much, at least at high levels. I disagree on full attacks, but would need a whole thread on old fighter builds!Regardless, above I meant is that you could use all the feats to reach that maneuver (WA) before you take it (you don't use bull rush or trip only with shields and whirlwind). You can use the same weapon for different things (what I said about power attack/trip and glaive). And the same move (WA) is VERY different if used with standard attacks, trips, or a cinematic AOE shield bash. I actually apreciated a lot the idea of the psionic monk, by fluff. Let see.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> yeah, was good to skip encounter too (cfr: noisy clerics) or to shut down monsters calling for reinforcements. But good for some social intrigue too. 6 seconds are less than 10 minutes!  Point. We need MOAR of this!Let's agree to disagree on a lot of things once again <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />?</blockquote>

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