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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5263075" data-attributes="member: 87792">4e is two systems mashed together - a rules light narrative system and a high crunch combat system.  There's a lot of flexing of gameworlds allowed in rules light systems either by the DM, the players, or both.  Both are very simple and vanilla and it's simpler to think about a martial power.  OK.  It's not useless (especially with 4e maps that play to the greater mobility and forced movement that normally appears in 4e).  Just very edge case if you don't do damage.  "bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats"  It's a bonus or extra attacks - both are stopped from any of the named sources as I read it.  (I might be wrong about the +4).  Yes.  What you can't then do is get a bonus or extra attack granted by another feat.  No trip and stab from improved trip.  Yes, you can vary it, granted.  Oh, the monk is good.  The Psion, Ardent, and Battlemind?  Not so much.  That sort of thing is laced throughout 4e.  One of the biggest problems is that in 4e you need to be able to read and interpret the mechanics to get at the fluff - and no one ever explains half of it.  Which means most of the gearheads I know of (including Logic Ninja of the Batman Wizard fame) have moved over to 4e because we can see what it's doing.  Probably sense.</blockquote>