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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5263805" data-attributes="member: 78116">But it's not hard to see why it's mechanically different from 2nd, 3rd and 4th edition for those reasons.Wow, I love how you take a single sentence of my argument out of context and then completely ignore every single argument I made. That is totally all I wrote in response to him and didn't give clear reasoning. All I did was declare him wrong and walk away from the debate!Oh wait.The only way shifting and telporting are the same is if we have a featureless, terrainless bowling ball with monsters that don't do anything except a melee basic attack. In "real DnD" the obvious distinction between a teleport and a shift is readily apparent - he is trying to claim this is a subtle distinction that is hard to pick up on. I have an immensely hard time swallowing that argument.I don't really think it's entirely aimed at disenfranchised players. I liked the change to magic missile not because it was restoring it to a "classic" form, but because it was making it a more unique and semi-interesting at-will. Granting it as a class feature for the mage was just a brilliant idea and one I firmly approved of (I extended it to all wizards). I think essentials is aimed at a lot of people, but in general it's not going to rewrite 4th edition as a system into something that isn't 4th edition. The Knight for example is a class that has a good deal of hidden complexity to it (stances) that is going to throw people more curve balls than they expect - but unlike a "4.5" it's not going to eliminate the older classes that people so much disapprove of from 4E.Now how that informs the design of 4E going forward post-essentials remains to be seen. Be aware that on a core level I agree with both you and Kamikaze Midget that 4E has very similar feeling mechanics between classes in many cases. This doesn't mean that suddenly everything is the same and there are clear differences between many mechanics. Teleporting, shifting and flight are all modes of movement with very different connotations. Certain core rules like this are not where 4E has failed to make distinct mechanics at all. Compare the discussion between Kaiyanwang and others earlier. All ranged and area attacks provoke opportunity actions because they are ranged and area attacks. In previous editions, using magic in close combat provoked an attack of opportunity because it was magic and no other distinction. One of these aspects produces a clear distinction between a magical effect and a normal mundane one. In 4E because the only thing that matters is if its a ranged/area attack, the argument was that it meant the distinction between a complex magical incantation being used and trying to throw an axe at someone was blurred by the system.I can see that argument, but I will absolutely vehemently disagree that such an incredibly distinct mechanic like teleporting is anywhere near similar to a distinct mechanic like shifting.Except in the case of the specific argument it's easily and demonstrably shown to be incorrect. There are massive and inherent mechanical differences between shifting and teleporting. There are numerous completely valid arguments about 4Es power structure making classes often "feel" very similar - but on this specific point the argument is wrong.</blockquote>

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