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The Essentials Thief: Escaping from Light Blade Hell
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<blockquote data-quote="Drakhar" data-source="post: 5401856" data-attributes="member: 66658"><p>8+Dex mod does not trump 5d6+5, let alone 5d8+5. Assuming a huge focus on Dex, which is a secondary stat for Slayers, you're still getting only about +16 to the attack, and concidering the fact that Thieves get brutal sneak attack damage, the minimum extra a thief will get is +15. And the Thief doesn't need +1 to all weapons because they only need to use Thief weapon types.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thieves get +6 to damage rolls with Acrobat's trick, unconditional. Also note that the Thief's tricks are about being mobile not additional damage. So again, Slayer doesn't trump Thief.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Alright, a Slayer is likely going to take either Heavy Blade, or Axe expertise, giving them a +2 bonus to Defenses against OA's, or the ability to Reroll one damage die that Results in a 1 but must use the second result. But then if a Slayer wants to use an Executioners axe, Axe Expertise has no benefit for them, so most likely a Slayer will wind up taking Master of Arms. You bring up Slayer's having higher AC then Thieves, which sadly is also unlikely. A rogue uses Dexterity as their main stat, which benefits them greatly to have high, and so assuming both classes take the ideal armors for them, will either have a Slayer in Scale and Thief in leather for no feat cost, or a Slayer in Plate and Thief in Hide for one feat. So a slayer is going to have either a +13/14 from their armor, while a thief will have +14/15. Even more to the point, a Thief uses one handed weapons, allowing them to have a parrying dagger in their off hand and benefit from Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Defense, increasing their AC and damage even further. Now a fighter is able to take Power Attack to increase their damage, but at the cost of accuracy, which tilts things even more in favor of the the thief.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, a Slayer may do more damage at level 1 due to using a larger damage die weapon, but frankly? Not by much. A rogue will be doing a minimum of 4 damage extra at level 1 with finesse and sneak attack, where as a Slayer would need 18 dex to do as much extra damage, which for a secondary stat is expensive so more then likely the Slayer will be doing 2-3 extra damage, which balances the difference between weapon die imho especially seeing as the rogue is capable of doing a total of 14 extra damage nearly as much as the epic Slayers bonus damage. So yes, a thief is quite easily able to out damage the slayer, as well as being highly mobile and of more use out of combat thanks to their skills.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Drakhar, post: 5401856, member: 66658"] 8+Dex mod does not trump 5d6+5, let alone 5d8+5. Assuming a huge focus on Dex, which is a secondary stat for Slayers, you're still getting only about +16 to the attack, and concidering the fact that Thieves get brutal sneak attack damage, the minimum extra a thief will get is +15. And the Thief doesn't need +1 to all weapons because they only need to use Thief weapon types. Thieves get +6 to damage rolls with Acrobat's trick, unconditional. Also note that the Thief's tricks are about being mobile not additional damage. So again, Slayer doesn't trump Thief. Alright, a Slayer is likely going to take either Heavy Blade, or Axe expertise, giving them a +2 bonus to Defenses against OA's, or the ability to Reroll one damage die that Results in a 1 but must use the second result. But then if a Slayer wants to use an Executioners axe, Axe Expertise has no benefit for them, so most likely a Slayer will wind up taking Master of Arms. You bring up Slayer's having higher AC then Thieves, which sadly is also unlikely. A rogue uses Dexterity as their main stat, which benefits them greatly to have high, and so assuming both classes take the ideal armors for them, will either have a Slayer in Scale and Thief in leather for no feat cost, or a Slayer in Plate and Thief in Hide for one feat. So a slayer is going to have either a +13/14 from their armor, while a thief will have +14/15. Even more to the point, a Thief uses one handed weapons, allowing them to have a parrying dagger in their off hand and benefit from Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Defense, increasing their AC and damage even further. Now a fighter is able to take Power Attack to increase their damage, but at the cost of accuracy, which tilts things even more in favor of the the thief. Yes, a Slayer may do more damage at level 1 due to using a larger damage die weapon, but frankly? Not by much. A rogue will be doing a minimum of 4 damage extra at level 1 with finesse and sneak attack, where as a Slayer would need 18 dex to do as much extra damage, which for a secondary stat is expensive so more then likely the Slayer will be doing 2-3 extra damage, which balances the difference between weapon die imho especially seeing as the rogue is capable of doing a total of 14 extra damage nearly as much as the epic Slayers bonus damage. So yes, a thief is quite easily able to out damage the slayer, as well as being highly mobile and of more use out of combat thanks to their skills. [/QUOTE]
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